Syria

The trouble is, if you're some kid dumped at a VCP in the middle of the desert with other kids and a couple of creepy older guys, when IS roll up firing on full auto you don't know whether you're facing a crack unit of captogen fuelled Chechen renegades who are in competition for how many people they can behead with 1 hand or some buffoons who are shooting each other in the back and some guy who has just burned his mate's face off with RPG backblast.
in Iraq though it wasn't just a case of some kids panicking and running away from a VCP in the middle of the desert or even the loss of a minor isolated town. It was the spectacle of the Iraqi army supposedly protecting the major population centres taking off their uniforms and running away in their underwear in abject terror.

It can't be explained as an inherent defect of character or lack of martial spirit in "the Arabs" since the Shia militias were subsequently able to pull the fat out of the fire. The correct raw material was evidently there in society.

There was obviously something seriously wrong with the "new" Iraqi army at that point, but IS must also have had some people who knew what they were doing to be able to get things to that point. It may indeed be fun to laugh at their ineptitude when the opportunity presents itself, but while their state may be crumbling now we should never underestimate their capability. They have the potential to be a serious threat to stability in the region for many years to come.

This is a lesson that we really need to take to heart, as apparently we didn't learn from Libya. We may be able to tear a state and society down, or at least help in tearing it down, but our ability to rebuild useful state structures and less formal social ties is far less than our ability to destroy them.
 
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in Iraq though it wasn't just a case of some kids panicking and running away from a VCP in the middle of the desert or even the loss of a minor isolated town. It was the spectacle of the Iraqi army supposedly protecting the major population centres taking off their uniforms and running away in their underwear in abject terror.

It can't be explained as an inherent defect of character or lack of martial spirit in "the Arabs" since the Shia militias were subsequently able to pull the fat out of the fire. The correct raw material was evidently there in society.

There was obviously something seriously wrong with the "new" Iraqi army at that point, but IS must also have had some people who knew what they were doing to be able to get things to that point. It may indeed be fun to laugh at their ineptitude when the opportunity presents itself, but while their state may be crumbling now we should never underestimate their capability. They have the potential to be a serious threat to stability in the region for many years to come.

This is a lesson that we really need to take to heart, as apparently we didn't learn from Libya. We may be able to tear a state and society down, or at least help in tearing it down, but our ability to rebuild useful state structures and less formal social ties is far less than our ability to destroy them.
Simply put, we have no traction in these places and those willing to work with us are the criminal classes, shysters and opportunists, quickly seen as such by the wider populace.

I said on another thread, I am to an extent ashamed of my own country take that feeling and multiply it by 10 and you have the Iraqi army who bailed because it has zero loyalty and why should anyone risk there lives, when they are likely facing all the usual thievery from the officer class in those places: skimming wages, selling food and/or ammunition been left in the lurch as the commander desert first.

IS have believers, you can face them down with well equipped and well paided trained mercenaries, anything else and those who want it more will win any firefight.
 
Simply put, we have no traction in these places and those willing to work with us are the criminal classes, shysters and opportunists, quickly seen as such by the wider populace.
I thought you were pro Kurds? Have you done another 180?
I said on another thread, I am to an extent ashamed of my own country
There are many doors
take that feeling and multiply it by 10 and you have the Iraqi army who bailed because it has zero loyalty and why should anyone risk there lives, when they are likely facing all the usual thievery from the officer class in those places: skimming wages, selling food and/or ammunition been left in the lurch as the commander desert first.
Their commanders did run first. However, to simplify as a lack of training imo, is wrong. IS used scare tactics and published videos of their mass execution of Iraqi and Syrian soldiers. It takes strong leadership to hold semi trained troops in such circumstances and neither the Iraqi’s or Syrians had it, except some rare occasions at Deir Al Zor. Even the Russians abandoned kit on their second assault on Palmyra inc GBAD.

Their info ops were effective and still are. Their use of cover excellent to prevent spotting. Their ability to regroup and counter attack impressive.
IS have believers, you can face them down with well equipped and well paided trained mercenaries, anything else and those who want it more will win any firefight.
How many firefights have you been in? The Kurds held and later as the SDF beat them. The Iraqi Shia militias held. The Iraqi CT and SF units beat them. Mercs? Where?
 
@terminal and @scalieback It just made me laugh. I wasn't really analysing it from a strategic or tactical angle :)
Neither am I. Much like I don’t think 4 Lions represents jihadi’s/mujahideen in Afghanistan. I took it as a light hearted pop tbh. But I don’t underestimate IS and unless Iraq and Syria do something positive, their reappearance in the Sunni population is likely.
 
Simply put, we have no traction in these places and those willing to work with us are the criminal classes, shysters and opportunists, quickly seen as such by the wider populace..
Since the criminal classes, shysters and opportunists are all working for Assad we'r effed in respect of that, however we have our own criminal classes, shysters and opportunists in other countries. We have shit loads of traction.
 
France sends medical aid to Assad's Syria after deal with Russia
Meanwhile, little aid has apparently been getting through to Ghouta since it came under Assad’s govt control. 50 tonnes of French aid has arrived, flown in by a Russian aircraft to a Russian base. It will be disseminated jointly by the U.N. and Red Crescent.

500,000 people and the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) managed to get in enough for 25,000 people earlier this month. Ghouta fell in April

“This operation is very significant because it shows a willingness from the Russians to work with us on a matter of priority,” said the French diplomatic source. “This area is crying out for help.”
 
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I thought you were pro Kurds? Have you done another 180?

There are many doors

Their commanders did run first. However, to simplify as a lack of training imo, is wrong. IS used scare tactics and published videos of their mass execution of Iraqi and Syrian soldiers. It takes strong leadership to hold semi trained troops in such circumstances and neither the Iraqi’s or Syrians had it, except some rare occasions at Deir Al Zor. Even the Russians abandoned kit on their second assault on Palmyra inc GBAD.

Their info ops were effective and still are. Their use of cover excellent to prevent spotting. Their ability to regroup and counter attack impressive.

How many firefights have you been in? The Kurds held and later as the SDF beat them. The Iraqi Shia militias held. The Iraqi CT and SF units beat them. Mercs? Where?
You think a lot of things and 180s as you refer to it, only demonstrates you don't know me at all and your powers of deduction, are not as good as you think they are.

I am an isolationist and think my nation needs a decade to repair itself and restore something we have lost in the desires of neo-con and neo-liberal agendas been pursued.

As a famous German once said, the Balkans is NOT worth the lives of a single Pomeranian Grenidear. In the case of the ME I think were complete fools to believe they appreciate any efforts done on there behalf. If the Russians want to put there men in harms way, I am all for it.
 
You think a lot of things and 180s as you refer to it, only demonstrates you don't know me at all and your powers of deduction, are not as good as you think they are.
I see somebody who wriggles out of a lot of statements he makes. Since you started here under your other username you been pushing a ‘I agree it’s Russia but... ‘ agenda. You claim to have been especially picked to be a RTG at Sutton Coldfield, which includes tests for both literacy and numeracy. Yet you continuously use ‘there’ when ‘their’ or ‘they're’ are more appropriate and ‘been’ instead of ‘being’.

11 years allegedly and you ‘rose’ to L/Cpl. You couldn’t be a ‘Spec Op’ due to Polish ancestry, but somehow you made RTG.

You also have your own definition of racism. Completely ‘not bothered’ by responses yet continue to respond.

My powers of deduction are like my ‘Spidey sense’ and it’s tingling.
I am an isolationist and think my nation needs a decade to repair itself and restore something we have lost in the desires of neo-con and neo-liberal agendas been pursued.
Aaah, neocons. I wondered when they would appear. A bit like your ‘elites’ statements.
As a famous German once said, the Balkans is NOT worth the lives of a single Pomeranian Grenidear.
Bismarck and look what happened 40 years later. There’s also:
Germany used the Congress of Berlin to cement its position as a Great Power, with Bismarck playing the part of the "honest broker" to perfection. He was a pacifist when Germany's vital interests were not in play: "Bulgaria, that little country between the Danube and the Balkans, is not sufficiently important ...to justify plunging Europe from Moscow to the Pyrenees, and from the North Sea to Palermo, into a war whose end no man can foresee. At the end of the conflict we should scarcely know why we had fought."
Plus there’s:
Bismarck also said in an eerily prescient comment: "Europe today is a powder keg and the leaders are like men smoking in an arsenal ... A single spark will set off an explosion that will consume us all ... I cannot tell you when that explosion will occur, but I can tell you where ... Some damned foolish thing in the Balkans will set it off."
In the case of the ME I think were complete fools to believe they appreciate any efforts done on there behalf. If the Russians want to put there men in harms way, I am all for it.
We’re and their.

The problem is they blame us for not taking action. We are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. The Russians don’t have their press going on about the killing of civilians at all. Do they have adverts to aid refugees? Have they admitted any CivCas? Are they paying £Bn’s to support refugees in neighbouring countries?
 
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I see somebody who wriggles out of a lot of statements he makes. Since you started here under your other username you been pushing a ‘I agree it’s Russia but... ‘ agenda. You claim to have been especially picked to be a RTG at Sutton Coldfield, which includes tests for both literacy and numeracy. Yet you continuously use ‘there’ when ‘their’ or ‘they're’ are more appropriate and ‘been’ instead of ‘being’.

11 years allegedly and you ‘rose’ to L/Cpl. You couldn’t be a ‘Spec Op’ due to Polish ancestry, but somehow you made RTG.

You also have your own definition of racism. Completely ‘not bothered’ by responses yet continue to respond.

My powers of deduction are like my ‘Spidey sense’ and it’s tingling.

Aaah, neocons. I wondered when they would appear. A bit like your ‘elites’ statements.

Bismarck and look what happened 40 years later. There’s also:

Plus there’s:



We’re and their.

The problem is they blame us for not taking action. We are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. The Russians don’t have their press going on about the killing of civilians at all. Do they have adverts to aid refugees? Have they admitted any CivCas? Are they paying £Bn’s to support refugees in neighbouring countries?
You can be 'Not bothered' about something, but still have an opinion when pressed, with the proviso that ultimately you think it pointless, or not have a bearing on your own existence.

With regards Russia, my opinions are they are a problem, but do I think something should be done about, probably not. My view is we have a lot of internal problems in our own country and much of the heat is been driven by those who have an agenda which is not necessarily to the benefit of my own country.

I respect some of your opinions, but your zeal in making the world a better place is a fruitless task.
 
You can be 'Not bothered' about something, but still have an opinion when pressed, with the proviso that ultimately you think it pointless, or not have a bearing on your own existence.

With regards Russia, my opinions are they are a problem, but do I think something should be done about, probably not. My view is we have a lot of internal problems in our own country and much of the heat is been driven by those who have an agenda which is not necessarily to the benefit of my own country.

I respect some of your opinions, but your zeal in making the world a better place is a fruitless task.
Were it not for people making the world a better place in spite of it being a fruitless task we'd be nowhere.

If you wish to talk about UK internal problems, start a thread, there's a good chap.
 
You can be 'Not bothered' about something, but still have an opinion when pressed, with the proviso that ultimately you think it pointless, or not have a bearing on your own existence.
I see it all over the TR thread
With regards Russia, my opinions are they are a problem, but do I think something should be done about, probably not.
You may have meant to add a ‘to’ and an ‘it’ in there. You seem to be of a mind to let them do what they want despite regional or NATO allies thoughts and of course what they do in the U.K. with 2 x CBRN attack
My view is we have a lot of internal problems in our own country and much of the heat is been driven by those who have an agenda which is not necessarily to the benefit of my own country.
According to you. Probably better on a seperate thread.
I respect some of your opinions, but your zeal in making the world a better place is a fruitless task.
I don’t believe the Ostritch strategy benefits anybody, least of all the U.K.
 
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I see it all over the TR thread

You may have meant to add a ‘to’ and an ‘it’ in there. You seem to be of a mind to let them do what they want despite regional or NATO allies thoughts and of course what they do in the U.K. with 2 x CBRN attack

According to you. Probably better on a seperate thread.

I don’t believe the Ostritch strategy benefits anybody, least of all the U.K.
So you are following me then and you don't think that a tad creepy.
 
My so called great flounce was off that thread, so I retain a fondness for stirring them up, juvenile, but I never said I was perfect.
That’s not the way I read the thread.
Yea, we don't agree and as in another post, never will.
Nope, thankfully.
I was very happy when we did not involve ourselves in Syria and its the best thing Ed Millipede ever did.
Just allowed another couple hundred thousand to be killed, a couple more million displaced, another dozen or more CW attacks, the taking over of a large proportion of the country by IS......
I wouldn't call it ostrich,
I would and did.
I also suggested on another thread, if Russia did the poisonings then I want action, but that seemed to go over peoples heads.
‘Highly likely’ and ongoing murder investigation
C ya
 
So you are following me then and you don't think that a tad creepy.
If I was following you, you’d know it and it also shows on your profile. I read a lot and comment on some things and not on others. As Ecomcon we crosssed paths. As Deleted 155579 we’ve crossed paths. Not 100% sure yet, but getting there.

Or are you saying I shouldn’t pick up on things you say? I suppose you could just put me on ‘ignore’
 
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Deleted 155579

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If I was following you, you’d know it and it also shows on your profile. I read a lot and comment on some things and not on others. As Ecomcon we crosssed paths. As Deleted 155579 we’ve crossed paths. Not 100% sure yet, but getting there.

Or are you saying I shouldn’t pick up on things you say? I suppose you could just put me on ‘ignore’
Well that is inevitable given I am the same person and we pretty much don't agree with each other on anything.
 
Well that is inevitable given I am the same person and we pretty much don't agree with each other on anything.
You’ll still cry about the ‘'UK Gov' Troll Squad on here’. Thought you were off?
 
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Deleted 155579

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You’ll still cry about the ‘'UK Gov' Troll Squad on here’. Thought you were off?
Playing the man again :) seems to be the thoroughly modern way of dealing with alternative opinions.

The problem with people like you, is the general public don't buy what your selling anymore and the appeals for something to be done, aren't working either. The establishment have lost control of the narrative, so yes the Russians are pushing one, but so is everyone else including me, exploring and making our own choices.

Syria is one of many points of conflict between the real libertarians like myself and others, or your selective truth-based top down authoritarian manner.
 
A group of Syrian "White Helmets" have left southwestern Syria for Jordan with the assistance of outside powers, including Israel. Canada to accept up to 250 Syrian White Helmet volunteers, family after dramatic escape | CBC News
Several hundred people — volunteers and their families — belonging to the rescue organization known as the White Helmets were extracted late Saturday from the southwestern portion of the war-torn country that's being overrun by forces loyal to leader Bashar al-Assad.
There weren't any details about why Israel was involved, but quite likely they traveled via the Israeli occupied Golan Heights district of Syria.

One source put the total numbers if Syrians included in the group at 422. It should be emphasised that only a small number of these will be actual White Helmets, with the majority being families or other associated people.
James Le Mesurier, who is considered the White Helmets' founder, said on Sunday that he believes 422 Syrians were rescued by the Israelis, who moved in because they were in the best strategic position to carry out the operation.
The other countries involved include the UK, France, Germany, the Netherlands, and Canada.
The volunteers were spirited out of Syria in a highly secret international operation that involved the U.K., France, Germany, the Netherlands and Canada, multiple sources told CBC News.
Canada will accept up to 50 of the White Helmets plus their families, which could mean taking roughly 250 people, or in other words the majority of them. This number has not been finalised and will likely vary depending on how many the other countries involved take.
The Liberal government has agreed to accept up to 50 of the White Helmet volunteers and their families, which could mean up to 250 people, according to senior officials who could not speak on the record because of the sensitive nature of the operation. The number, officials said, could change.
What to do about the White Helmets was debated at the recent NATO conference.
The plight of the White Helmets was the subject of intense debate among foreign ministers at the recent NATO conference, the sources said.

Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland made "an impassioned plea" to her colleagues, according to several sources.
Britain and Germany have also agreed to accept some for resettlement.
Britain and Germany have also stepped forward, but the sources said other countries are expected to join the effort and offers to resettle them are expected to exceed the number of evacuees by a large margin.
The rebel territory they were in had been claimed by the US as a "safe zone", but the US has not made any effort to enforce that claim as the Syrian government forces retake rebel territory in southwestern Syria.
The territory under assault had been designated as a U.S.-protected safe zone, but the Trump administration has not made a move to enforce that as government forces tighten their grip on the region.
Normally this operation would not be possible as Israel refuses to accept refugees from the war and Jordan has shut their borders to taking more.
An evacuation of rebel-held territory has been underway since last weekend, but neighbouring countries have shut their borders to refugees.
However, an exception has been made in this case apparently due to the diplomatic involvement of the above mentioned western countries.
 

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