Syria - the Russian persepctive

#81
Once again thanks for that Scalieback.

Yes, if anyone just enters "Muscovite Mindset" and "Muscovite Mentality" into the ARRSE search function (across the whole site) there's lots of instances when I mention this and a few when I explain it at length.

I've just done a short search and found the post where I encapsulate this mentality in a number of succint points.
Chronicles of war in Ukraine | Page 932 | Army Rumour Service
An academic currently specialising in Russian affairs recently asked if he could use this in a paper he was writing. So I was chuffed to bits.

Reproduced below for the indolent (and to annoy KGB-R again).
Thanks once again. I typed 'Russian mindset' and it didn't come up. My fault for not recalling it as the 'Muscovite mindset' :)
 
#82
Post 4 on this thread:
Aleppo air strike kills 14 members of one family - rescue team

Come on Sergey, lets prove that it's not another Russian whitewash. What investigating has the RuAF completed into this incident? Where are the reports in Russian press about the investigation? What has the Russian MoD said?
It is allegation made by rebels or/and terrorists. It is not confirmed by independent sources and could be just invented by rebels or/and terrorists. Only 14? But why not 24 or 44? Or maybe just 4. There are big families in Syria. It is possible that all 14 (or 4) are militants. There are no sufficient ground to launch any investigation.
Also SyAF bomb Aleppo. So SyAF could be responsible.
 
#83
It is allegation made by rebels or/and terrorists. It is not confirmed by independent sources and could be just invented by rebels or/and terrorists. Only 14? But why not 24 or 44? Or maybe just 4. There are big families in Syria. It is possible that all 14 (or 4) are militants. There are no sufficient ground to launch any investigation.
So, no investigation then? SCD is only a terrorist organisation according to you and maskirovka sites. Another whitewash
Also SyAF bomb Aleppo. So SyAF could be responsible.
Have you even found out if the RuAF were bombing that area at the time?

There was a reason why the RuAF painted out their markings on their aircraft when they first arrived in theatre wasn't there?

An opportunity to do the right thing and you haven't stepped up to the plate Sergey
 
#84
So, no investigation then? SCD is only a terrorist organisation according to you and maskirovka sites. Another whitewash

Have you even found out if the RuAF were bombing that area at the time?

There was a reason why the RuAF painted out their markings on their aircraft when they first arrived in theatre wasn't there?

An opportunity to do the right thing and you haven't stepped up to the plate Sergey
Let's look at the photo from your source

People bury relatives whom died in an airstrike yesterday in the rebel held besieged al-Qaterji neighbourhood, in Aleppo, Syria October 17, 2016.
Note that 'people' are all young males. At least one wears uniform (probably hadn't time to redress) You can not see even one woman, child or the old. So 'relatives' are likely just militants killed in the house turned into fire position.
So the bombing allegedly happened 16 October.

A damaged site is pictured after an airstrike in the besieged rebel-held al-Qaterji neighbourhood of Aleppo, Syria October 14, 2016.
So the airstrike allegedly happened 16 October but the last photo was made 14 October.
And you propose to investigate it?
 
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#85
Thanks once again. I typed 'Russian mindset' and it didn't come up. My fault for not recalling it as the 'Muscovite mindset' :)
No problem.

Calling it the Muscovite mindset or mentality, is not a reference to the good burghers of Moscow. I have absolutely no beef with them.

It is a pointer to the fact that the State of Russia as we know it (and the state of the Russian State) derides from history and the toxic influence and actions of the Principality of Muscovy that have shaped this State into the state it is in. It is my firm belief that had Ky'iv or Novgorod been the principal actors in uniting "all the Russias", Russia today would behave in a far different manner and would likely be a functioning democracy. Alas that is in the fanciful realms of alternate history and unfortunately we are left to deal with a State that functions like a retarded psychopathic bully with an inferiority complex and an incapacity to understand that its viewpoint does not reflect the way the (what we like to think of as the) civilised world works.
 
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#86
Meanwhile accusations and counter-accusations between Russia and Belgium in the context of bombing of Kurdish village Hassajik in Aleppo region continues.
Unlikely you would find it in main stream mass media.
Belgium demands Russia retract Aleppo airstrike claim
Belgium on Thursday demanded that Russia formally withdraw claims that two of its F-16 fighter jets killed six civilians in an airstrike near the besieged Syrian city of Aleppo.
A defence ministry statement Thursday said the government's position remained unchanged and it expected "a formal retraction" by Russia after Moscow submitted "so-called evidence" to the Belgian embassy there.

Instead, this evidence, consisting of a map with a flight path on it, proved that Moscow was fabricating the claim, it said.
"From this map it is evident that the IFF (identification friend or foe) numbers attributed to the aircraft ... do not belong to Belgian Air Force aircraft and that the so-called evidence has thus been fabricated," it said.
In this context silence of other members of US-led coalition is deafening.
If the numbers are not Belgian then what planes took part in the bombing.
There are no comments.

Meanwhile Syrian government claims that its armed forces will shoot down any Turkiush military aircraft that would violate sovereign Syrian airspace.
I suspect that next time Belgian or other aircrafts could be shot down by 'mistake' (identified 'mistakenly' as Turkish).
In this case it would be hard to deny anything.
 
#87
Let's look at the photo from your source


Note that 'people' are all young males. At least one wears uniform (probably hadn't time to redress) You can not see even one woman, child or the old. So 'relatives' are likely just militants killed in the house turned into fire position.
So the bombing allegedly happened 16 October.


So the airstrike allegedly happened 16 October but the last photo was made 14 October.
And you propose to investigate it?
Yes I do. It's a Reuters gallery and do not necessarily relate to the same incident.

Yours and your govts attempts at denial and obfuscation paint a much better picture than even Reuters (who like SCD you now try to discredit as they showed the Bellingcat investigation into MH17) can. Grow a pair Sergey and do some proper investigation rather than your very poor attempt at lies a disinformation
 
#88
Meanwhile accusations and counter-accusations between Russia and Belgium in the context of bombing of Kurdish village Hassajik in Aleppo region continues.
Unlikely you would find it in main stream mass media.
Belgium demands Russia retract Aleppo airstrike claim

In this context silence of other members of US-led coalition is deafening.
If the numbers are not Belgian then what planes took part in the bombing.
There are no comments.
They have said it wasn't them according to you and yet you still pursue the pointless agitprop. Perhaps like RuAF allegations you should blame the SAAF?
Meanwhile Syrian government claims that its armed forces will shoot down any Turkiush military aircraft that would violate sovereign Syrian airspace.
I suspect that next time Belgian or other aircrafts could be shot down by 'mistake' (identified 'mistakenly' as Turkish).
In this case it would be hard to deny anything.
Reported on the main thread. If your operators can't distinguish IFF from Belgian or Turkish F16s and fire first I expect that radar site and missile battery to no longer exist

"In that case it would be hard to deny anything" ;-)
 
#89
They have said it wasn't them according to you and yet you still pursue the pointless agitprop. Perhaps like RuAF allegations you should blame the SAAF?

Reported on the main thread. If your operators can't distinguish IFF from Belgian or Turkish F16s and fire first I expect that radar site and missile battery to no longer exist

"In that case it would be hard to deny anything" ;-)
Russian AD forces in Syria would not try to shoot down any aircraft. However they could inform the Syrians or could not inform. I reckon that just now Moscow will try to avoid any incidents like downing of military aircraft by Syrian AD. However we live in fast changing World and anyway 'mistakes' are possible.
As for retaliation then modern AD systems are highly mobile and could vanish soon. Anyway it is not safe to fly over gov.controlled territory without notification of Russia.
 
#90
Russian AD forces in Syria would not try to shoot down any aircraft. However they could inform the Syrians or could not inform. I reckon that just now Moscow will try to avoid any incidents like downing of military aircraft by Syrian AD. However we live in fast changing World and anyway 'mistakes' are possible.
Agreed
As for retaliation then modern AD systems are highly mobile and could vanish soon. Anyway it is not safe to fly over gov.controlled territory without notification of Russia.
Sergey I'd be very surprised if the target set was not given to the Russians and 'flight corridors' as well. You'll also note the defensive measures taken by Tonka's when Russian aircraft came on line. In that case it was just fitting Sidewinders IIRC.

If a coalition SAM gets tone, I assume retaliatory measures are available. Whether they're used is a different matter but as per the other thread, you need to stop upping the rhetoric. It's 'bluff and bluster' from the Syrians once again. A bit like on the WW3 thread when you're getting all 'angsty' about possible US strikes on Syrian govt targets and invading the Baltics on some trumped up excuse. It's the ramblings of tin pot dictators.

Calm down and have some (polonium) tea :)
 
#91
Thanks Mr Fingerz ( interesting you popped up the same time as he last posted also interesting you have a similar massive post count).
Funny, I've only been a member since 2014 and have only post a couple of hundred messages.
Is that a lot in your world?

So much for your sock insinuation.
 
#92
Meanwhile accusations and counter-accusations between Russia and Belgium in the context of bombing of Kurdish village Hassajik in Aleppo region continues.
Unlikely you would find it in main stream mass media.
Belgium demands Russia retract Aleppo airstrike claim

In this context silence of other members of US-led coalition is deafening.
If the numbers are not Belgian then what planes took part in the bombing.
There are no comments.

Meanwhile Syrian government claims that its armed forces will shoot down any Turkiush military aircraft that would violate sovereign Syrian airspace.
I suspect that next time Belgian or other aircrafts could be shot down by 'mistake' (identified 'mistakenly' as Turkish).
In this case it would be hard to deny anything.
It's in MSM:
Russia summons Belgian envoy in row over Syria air strike
 
#93
Agreed

Sergey I'd be very surprised if the target set was not given to the Russians and 'flight corridors' as well. You'll also note the defensive measures taken by Tonka's when Russian aircraft came on line. In that case it was just fitting Sidewinders IIRC.

If a coalition SAM gets tone, I assume retaliatory measures are available. Whether they're used is a different matter but as per the other thread, you need to stop upping the rhetoric. It's 'bluff and bluster' from the Syrians once again. A bit like on the WW3 thread when you're getting all 'angsty' about possible US strikes on Syrian govt targets and invading the Baltics on some trumped up excuse. It's the ramblings of tin pot dictators.

Calm down and have some (polonium) tea :)
Just now I'm drinking Twining. My tea probably contains small (harmless) amount of Po-210 as many other beverages.
Assad's threat is now merely a threat and it doesn't mean that any aircraft would be shot down tomorrow but no one can exclude a 'mistake'.
 
#94
Just now I'm drinking Twining. My tea probably contains small (harmless) amount of Po-210 as many other beverages.
Be careful you don't stray from the party line or it will contain polonium
Assad's threat is now merely a threat and it doesn't mean that any aircraft would be shot down tomorrow but no one can exclude a 'mistake'.
It's rhetoric, along the lines of 'Comical Ali'

Edit: An example of the 'bollox' spouted by the Syrian regime on one of your maskirovka sites ie they say they shot down an IAF fighter and UAV. Israeli's state they came under fire:
Syrian Army Command Confirms Shooting Down Israeli Aircraft Over Quneitra Region
"Tonight two surface-to-air missiles were launched from Syria after our aircraft attacked Syrian artillery positions. At none of the stages of the incident was the safety of the Israeli Air Force’s aircraft threatened," Maj. Arye Shalicar told RIA Novosti.

The Israel Air Force (IAF) attacked Syrian artillery positions in the Golan Heights in the early hours of Tuesday after the latest episode cross-border shelling that began over the weekend, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said.

Read more: Syrian Army Command Confirms Shooting Down Israeli Aircraft Over Quneitra Region
 
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#95
Following the Il-20 shootdown last week,

'According to Kommersant, one of Russia’s retaliatory measures, declared by President Vladimir Putin, would be deploying an S-300 battery to Syria. This measure, which was announced after the Western coalition attacked Syria for the first time, has not been implemented so far. Should the S-300 be sent to Syria, this will be "a serious argument for the Israeli Air Force to stop carrying out strikes on Syria," a high-ranking military source told the paper. "De-facto, Syria’s airspace would be protected by an efficient modification of the S-300 system, rather than just outdated air defense systems," he said.'

Press review: Russia may clip Israel’s wings in Syria and gears up to use Iranian airbase
 
#96
According to Haaretz
Russia warned Israel before downing of plane: Attacking Syrian targets harms Moscow’s interests
Russia told senior Israeli security officials that attacking Syrian targets is inconsistent with its interests in the region even before the Russian plane was shot down in Syria last week, Haaretz has learned.
According to the Russians, Israeli strikes weaken Assad and harm his attempts to end the fighting in the country.
Despite the Russian messages, Israel's policy in Syria has not changed.
Netanyahu to Putin: Don't supply Syria with S-300 anti-missile system
Russian plans to supply the advanced S-300 anti-missile system to Syria within two weeks will endangers the region, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told Russian President Vladimir Putin in a telephone call on Monday night.
"The transfer of advanced weapons systems into irresponsible hands will increase the dangers in the region. Israel will continue to defend its security and its interests,” Netanyahu told the Russian leader.
It's too late I fear.
The White House said it hoped Russia would reconsider the move, which US National Security Advisor John Bolton called a "significant escalation" of the seven-year war.
It's interesting that the statement really means that the White House doesn't hope.
There is a big difference between English and political English.
 
#97
According to Haaretz


Russia warned Israel before downing of plane: Attacking Syrian targets harms Moscow’s interests








Netanyahu to Putin: Don't supply Syria with S-300 anti-missile system





It's too late I fear.





It's interesting that the statement really means that the White House doesn't hope.


There is a big difference between English and political English.

Funny how you missed these two paragraphs. Basically everyone at the meeting accepted the Israeli evidence. However, Russia continued to blame Israel and now escalated with the supply of S-300 aka SA10 Grumble. As mentioned on the other thread. Even if you get chimps to drive Maserati’s instead of Trebants it doesn’t affect the fundamental issues of ROEs, target identification and training:
Israel understood that the materials its delegation presented to Russia during the visit headed by air force chief Maj. Gen. Amikam Norkin were received with understanding by their Russian counterparts. Upon the delegation's return, a senior IDF official said that "it is clear to everyone who was a party to the talks that the responsible one for shooting down the Russian plane is Syria.

However, the findings of the Russian investigation, as presented Sunday by the Russian Defense Ministry, put this understanding into question. Although this was not the first time, Russia's decision to close Syria's airspace for the purpose of an exercise was perceived in Israel as a message from the Russians that the incident was still on the agenda
How Israel attacking supplies to Hezbollah, much like destroying Assad’s (alleged) CW production facilities, hinders the Syrian regime remains a mystery. After all they’re not directed at the rebels.
 

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