Swine Flu Jab - Warning to Gulf Vets (and others)

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by HydraJoe, Oct 19, 2009.

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  1. I have just received this information from the NGVFA by email:-

  2. Vorschprung durch technik!
  3. Oh dear. Much as I sympathise with those suffering from Gulf War illnesses, pretty pathetic stirring up against the swine flu vaccine.

    Yes, the GSK variant of the vaccine does contain squalene. But no one has ever come up with evidence that squalene is a problem. The World Health Organisation points out that over 22 million doses of just one type of squalene-using seasonal flu vaccine have been administered safely without serious adverse effects. And that is just one particular vaccine.

    Not to mention the squalene found in food and our own livers!

    Also, didn't US research a few years ago conclude that actually squalene wasn't used in the Granby vaccines?

    As I say - not denying that some Granby veterans are unwell, possibly because of Granby. And they really do have my sympathy. But to tell people not to take a properly tested vaccine for swine flu because of vague, unproven concerns that squalene was to blame is ridiculous. As I understand it, the whole reason that the Dept of Health is giving the MOD early stocks of the vaccine is the threat to life in Afghanistan; not that the swine flu itself is likely to kill (though let us not forget the poor TA chap who did die of it over the summer), but to avoid unnecessary medevacs or having to give up hard-fought gains should a lot of boys and girls go down with the bug in theatre.
  4. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    So what is your take on the German head of sheds special treatment?
  5. In the USA they don’t even bother to screen and check up on kids anymore as so many of the buggers now have the flu it would bring the medical system to a grinding halt.
  6. That is the key thing and why this has surfaced, if the bog standard vaccine is OK why the special for Ms Merkle, is it because she can or is it because she knows something we don't.
  7. Every vaccine that comes out has it's own conspiracy theory from the tin-foil hat brigade - remember all the fuss over the MMR?


    If vaccination for anything was such a bad idea, why does the NHS spend so much making vaccines available? They would spend it on managers instead.
  8. I don't know why the "special treatment" for Mrs Merkel at all, assuming of course that Spiegel is actually correct in its reporting. Which is quite a big assumption. After all, I would not rush to believe something written in The Sun or The Mirror...

    My understanding is that there have been doubts expressed as to whether the Baxters vaccine is as effective as the GSK one. Certainly the medical guidance is that you need two doses of the Baxters, whilst most people will only need one of the GSK. So IF the Baxters is being offered to the German forces it hardly smacks of favouritism. It may be as simple as using up the stocks of the second-choice jab on a vaccination group that is more easily organised and administered from a logistics point of view, whilst keeping the single jab GSK for the mass population. There is no paediatric version of the Baxters - not a problem for the Armed Forces. And saves having to explain to Mrs Hausfrau why she needed two jabs whilst her neighbour had a different jab that only needed one dose.

    Anyway, that is all assuming that Spiegel is accurate.

    As for Old Bloke's comment about "better to risk the swine flu than risk the vaccine" and his nephew's experience: I have some sympathy with that. Personally, I have developed in recent years a chronic condition that puts me in the at-risk group, so I will accept the vaccine when offered. If I was as fit and healthy as I used to be when younger, I would probably not accept the offer.

    The key point is the reason that it will be offered to the boys and girls in theatre is not that the illness itself is likely to hurt them, but the additional threats that a bad outbreak could cause as side effects: extra, unnecessary burdens on the medics; potentially avoidable medevacs if someone gets complications; loss of front-line combat capability if people go down by the platoon.
  9. Not wishing to argue about the figures or if squalene is truly toxic, but as a point the vaccine has been administered recently. Surely if any (supposed) negative effects of the drug manifest only after a period of time then it is too early to claim that there have been no adverse effects.

    I decided not to ask for the vaccine much for the reasons that Old_Bloke states, even in my 50's.
  10. As you say, don't want to get into an argument on this, but my understanding is that the seasonal flu vaccine with squalene, called Fluad, which the WHO has studied has been in use since 1997. Granted, that is more recent in time than Granby in 1990-1, but those people who reported illnesses after Granby did so pretty quickly; indeed, by 1997 the issue was in full cry because it was late 1996-7 that Fatty Soames got crucified in Parliament for the handling of Gulf War Syndrome.

    So my guess is that 12 years is a fairly reasonable time-frame for problems with squalene in the Fluad to have come to light, were there to be any.

    If you are in your 50s and healthy, your decision seems pretty reasonable.
  11. It's causing a lot of confusion over here. All they (officialdom), are saying is that both are the same and have no differences. They are not giving any explanations though.

    Even the depots are being kept secret - well, according to the news on the radio at 02:00 hrs today.

    Personally, I won't bother with it.
  12. The official answer to that one is that vaccine was ordered for the Govt and Bundeswehr before the vaccine was ordered for the general population, and there were 2 different suppliers involved. There have been strong denials that this is a 2 class system, however as Shakespeare said "methinks the lady doth protest too much". Smoke/fire?
  13. Thank you for the debate on the subject. It would be interesting to have some medical knowledge on this subject posted.
  14. That of course still begs the question why two orders anyway, and why from different suppliers. Still too many questions I fear.
  15. That is what I was on about in my previous post. The German population are confused and there isn't much info coming forward - pretty much like the UK government really! Why keep the depots a secret as well?