Swimming Criteria for TA

#1
Can anyone let me know what the swimming standards are for the TA, and yes to be un-original and boring particularly re the HAC/4PARA and re the Int Corp and infantry.
 
#4
needhelp said:
Can anyone let me know what the swimming standards are for the TA, and yes to be un-original and boring particularly re the HAC/4PARA and re the Int Corp and infantry.
For HAC you have to pass a Military Swim Test before starting Phase 2 training (for patrols). Basically a swim round a small lake in CS95 and tread water for a bit.

They used to do a swimming test (in an indoor pool) on the (pre-joining) assessment weekend but this may not have survived the recent changes with TARS coming in, but that was not a pass/fail - more to let you know that you had 6 months to get it sorted if you had a problem.

There used to be a surprising amount of swimming across rivers on the HAC Phase 2 course - but H&S has cut it back drastically.
 
#5
Bailey said:
There used to be a surprising amount of swimming across rivers on the HAC Phase 2 course - but H&S has cut it back drastically.
It has nothing to do with H&S. Stop trying to deflect the blame for laziness.

msr
 
#6
msr said:
Bailey said:
There used to be a surprising amount of swimming across rivers on the HAC Phase 2 course - but H&S has cut it back drastically.
It has nothing to do with H&S. Stop trying to deflect the blame for laziness.

msr
And the prize for the unfathomable post for February goes to....
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#7
Bailey said:
msr said:
Bailey said:
There used to be a surprising amount of swimming across rivers on the HAC Phase 2 course - but H&S has cut it back drastically.
It has nothing to do with H&S. Stop trying to deflect the blame for laziness.

msr
And the prize for the unfathomable post for February goes to....
Nothing unfathomable about it.

You can still do as many river crossings as you want to, as long as you abide by the water safety regs. If you are not doing them, it is because people are not willing to do the work required to meet the safety regs.

Easier for you now?
 
#8
The_Duke said:
Bailey said:
msr said:
Bailey said:
There used to be a surprising amount of swimming across rivers on the HAC Phase 2 course - but H&S has cut it back drastically.
It has nothing to do with H&S. Stop trying to deflect the blame for laziness.

msr
And the prize for the unfathomable post for February goes to....
Nothing unfathomable about it.

You can still do as many river crossings as you want to, as long as you abide by the water safety regs. If you are not doing them, it is because people are not willing to do the work required to meet the safety regs.

Easier for you now?
And boy are the safety regs a fecking minefield
 
#9
The basic test is an assessment, substantially what stayce88 said. There are two categories - "Can Swim" and "Can't Swim".

From my experience, the category that you fall into makes little difference to the training that you'll do (units with specific criteria excepted) other than "non-swimmers" will get closer supervision.

The difference becomes more apparent on adventurous training when non-swimmers may be excluded from some fun events.

The moral is therefore "Learn to swim". It's not only a passport to adventure, but may also save a life (perhaps even your own).
 
#10
I wasn't aware there was a criteria, except for the mil swim test. However, it is worth saying that swimming is a criteria of being an adult, much like riding a bike, or not shiiting yourself in public.
 
#11
The_Duke said:
You can still do as many river crossings as you want to

For most sane people that will 0 :D .
Horrible things .And before they enforced the safety rules could be very dodgy .
 
#12
Royal engineers and infantry assault pioneers must pass mandatory swimming test whether in a swimming pool with cs95 or open water in the medway with the tide going out in an immersion suit. Other than that there are no specific to arm requirements.
 
#13
easesprings said:
The_Duke said:
Bailey said:
msr said:
Bailey said:
There used to be a surprising amount of swimming across rivers on the HAC Phase 2 course - but H&S has cut it back drastically.
It has nothing to do with H&S. Stop trying to deflect the blame for laziness.

msr
And the prize for the unfathomable post for February goes to....
Nothing unfathomable about it.

You can still do as many river crossings as you want to, as long as you abide by the water safety regs. If you are not doing them, it is because people are not willing to do the work required to meet the safety regs.

Easier for you now?
And boy are the safety regs a fecking minefield
Too right, and where do WSOs come from these days. I know the HAC used to get theirs as a by-product of JWIC, but I guess that route in closed now as IIRC JWIC has gone.

What Duke seems to miss is that it's possible to put some many regs in place that it makes something a practical impossibility (and cylumes on all rather ruins the tactical aspect), still I guess the're aren't as many rivers in Afgan as Germany so the requirement has dropped rather.

Still contact drills from the middle of the Severn followed by E&E in waterproofs and issue daps was 'interesting' back when training was, well, training.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
QRK2 said:
...
What Duke seems to miss is that it's possible to put some many regs in place that it makes something a practical impossibility (and cylumes on all rather ruins the tactical aspect), still I guess the're aren't as many rivers in Afgan as Germany so the requirement has dropped rather.
There may not be as many rivers, but there is a pretty major one that runs right through our area of operations in Afghanistan; the River Helmand. Moreover, the Green Zone that flanks said river is criss-crossed with an extensive network of irrigation ditches that can be quite deep.

The CO of 2 Rifles has decreed that everyone in the battalion should have passed the Military Swim Test in the period shortly before deployment. Though as some have been quick to point out, there is probably a limited utility in the ability to tread water for two minutes and swim two laps in your Speedos when in theatre you will be kitted up with Osprey body armour and 35Kg on your back.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#15
QRK2 said:
easesprings said:
The_Duke said:
Bailey said:
msr said:
Bailey said:
There used to be a surprising amount of swimming across rivers on the HAC Phase 2 course - but H&S has cut it back drastically.
It has nothing to do with H&S. Stop trying to deflect the blame for laziness.

msr
And the prize for the unfathomable post for February goes to....
Nothing unfathomable about it.

You can still do as many river crossings as you want to, as long as you abide by the water safety regs. If you are not doing them, it is because people are not willing to do the work required to meet the safety regs.

Easier for you now?
And boy are the safety regs a fecking minefield
Too right, and where do WSOs come from these days. I know the HAC used to get theirs as a by-product of JWIC, but I guess that route in closed now as IIRC JWIC has gone.

What Duke seems to miss is that it's possible to put some many regs in place that it makes something a practical impossibility (and cylumes on all rather ruins the tactical aspect), still I guess the're aren't as many rivers in Afgan as Germany so the requirement has dropped rather.

Still contact drills from the middle of the Severn followed by E&E in waterproofs and issue daps was 'interesting' back when training was, well, training.
Not at all - I just don't subscribe to the "it's harder than it used to be, so let's stop doing it" school of thought.

LFTT is also much harder to plan and conduct than it used to be, and has lost some of the realism along the way.

Do you propose we give up doing that as well?
 
#16
The_Duke said:
Not at all - I just don't subscribe to the "it's harder than it used to be, so let's stop doing it" school of thought.

LFTT is also much harder to plan and conduct than it used to be, and has lost some of the realism along the way.

Do you propose we give up doing that as well?
There will come a time when the amount of 'hardship' outweighs the available time to plan and people able to supervise.

Not to mention the 'fun'.

msr
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#17
msr said:
The_Duke said:
Not at all - I just don't subscribe to the "it's harder than it used to be, so let's stop doing it" school of thought.

LFTT is also much harder to plan and conduct than it used to be, and has lost some of the realism along the way.

Do you propose we give up doing that as well?
There will come a time when the amount of 'hardship' outweighs the available time to plan and people able to supervise.

Not to mention the 'fun'.

msr
Really? It takes longer lead in time to get things in place, and a bit (read a lot) more paperwork, but it has not stopped training being run yet.

Can't means won't......
 
#18
AGAI lists 18 lists the safety requirements for a river crossing. Most infantry battalions have assault pioneer platoons of which the platoon serjeant should have a WSO qualification. It's no hardship or ballsache whatsoever to organise.
 
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