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SUSAT To Be Replaced?

#1
Had a quick search, couldn't find it posted;

UK assault rifle to receive lighter, improved sight
Andrew White Jane's Land Forces Reporter

London

The UK armed forces' L85A2 (SA80A2) assault rifle is to undergo another transformation as the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) starts negotiations to replace the L9A1 weapon sight.

The UK MoD's Future Infantry Soldier Technology (FIST) programme office wants an "improved and lighter" system to replace the United Scientific Instruments L9A1 Sight Unit Small Arms Trilux (SUSAT), currently in use with the SA80A2.

Industry sources said the UK MoD favours the Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight (ACOG) TA31RCO 4 x 32 sight, produced by US aiming systems specialist Trijicon. The deal could have a potential value of up to GBP200 million (USD357.8 million).

In 2000, the SUSAT was exempt from arms specialist Heckler & Koch's (H&K's) GBP92 million revamp of the SA80.

The UK MoD contracted H&K to modify some 200,000 SA80 assault rifles and L86 Light Support weapons, with improvements including a new hammer, cocking handle, gas plug and firing pin. Monthly deliveries to the UK MoD of 4,000 SA80A2s started in December 2001 and the contract is due for completion 2006.

Trijicon's Military Division manager, Shaun Rategan, said: "We cannot comment on quantities or type. The FIST programme has tested and evaluated our ACOG and conveyed an interest in future business."

ACOG is currently favoured by the US Special Operations Command, including Green Berets, US Navy sea, air and land (SEAL) commandos and US Army Rangers as well as the UK's special forces. Designed for use with the M16 series of assault rifles, it is seen as a very robust sight despite being 137 g lighter than the 417 g SUSAT.

Other features include dual illustrated reticle, enhanced adjuster caps and chevron reticle and crosshair. A deal could also include the purchase of simple scissor-action mounts.

Since H&K's improvement programme, the SA80A2 has had "isolated difficulties", according to a UK National Audit Office report in December 2003, although post-operational reports indicated a general acceptance that the SA80A2 is effective and reliable.

In 2005, Trijicon won a USD660 million contract to provide Rifle Combat Optics (RCO), a modified version of the ACOG, for the US Marine Corps' M16 assault rifles.

The deal initially comprised 104,000 scopes, worth USD610 each, with an additional option for the US government to buy a maximum of 800,000 RCO scopes over the five-year contract period.
 
#3
they are good. they have horizontal bars across them. these represent the width of a mans shoulders from 100 - 600m (think they go up to 600m). good bit of kit, but do look and feel a lot flimsier than the SUSAT
 
#5
GBP200 million to save 137g ?

Somebody somewhere will have some explaining to do...

Do optic sights wear out?

msr
 
#7
Forgive my stupidity, but.....

GBP200 million (USD357.8 million)for optical upgrade. Each sight cost USD610. That means we are buying 586,557 scopes. To go with our 200,000 SA80 assault rifles and L86 Light Support weapons.

That leaves and extra 386,557......





I'll get my coat.....
 
#9
Teeth Arms and CS on the new sight, CSS still on iron sight? Opened myself up for lots of Corps baiting I know but iron sight is not an act of war or (more relevant) on operations where CSS are just as vulnerable.

What would happen with the 1000's of SUSATs that were replaced? CSS upgrade or sold off for a fiver on the local car boot sale.... sorry, through Military Disposals.
 
#10
msr said:
GBP200 million to save 137g ?

Somebody somewhere will have some explaining to do...

Do optic sights wear out?

msr
well, may be wearing out with age? my mate dave whos does stuff with nuclear s### in his civiy job could probablky answer this better, but tritium has a half lift, what ever this is. the older the tritium in the susat is, the dimer the iluminated aiming needle will be.
we've had susat for what, 20 years now? unsure.
 
#11
press_it said:
msr said:
GBP200 million to save 137g ?

Somebody somewhere will have some explaining to do...

Do optic sights wear out?

msr
well, may be wearing out with age? my mate dave whos does stuff with nuclear s### in his civiy job could probablky answer this better, but tritium has a half lift, what ever this is. the older the tritium in the susat is, the dimer the iluminated aiming needle will be.
we've had susat for what, 20 years now? unsure.
<science mode on>

its has a half-life of 12.3 years. so after 12.3 years it will emit half the beta particles, and therefore be half as bright.

<science mode off>
 
#14
Soldier_5 said:
<science mode on>

its has a half-life of 12.3 years. so after 12.3 years it will emit half the beta particles, and therefore be half as bright.

<science mode off>
Sorry, you talking about the f*ckwit in procurement or the SUSAT??

:p
 
#17
Heard stories of tankies with Eotechs on their new stubby K's. Saw them mounted on police mp5s outside the american embassy when I went to grab my VISA last year. Outstanding bit of kit, if the reticule gets broken, the holographic crosshair shifts to the next biggest bit of broken glass...its magic!

Not sure if these would work well over battle distances (therefore negating their use on regular A2s) - what about the Canadian elcan sight?

A mate of mines father works on the FIST project, Ill have a chinwag with him and see what pops up.
 
#19
ACOG will probably be modified again to fit in with FIST, there are some good sights which are better than SUSAT for reflex shooting (holographic, etc) but the bottom line is that it must fit in with the rest of the FIST technology.

So forget Eotech and Elcan, more likely to get something like Viper (almost 1kg ?!)
 
#20
Soldier_5 said:
they have horizontal bars across them. these represent the width of a mans shoulders from 100 - 600m
Ballistic matching graticules (funnel-shape on the newer holographic sights), they account for the trajectory of the 5.56 round.

All sounds 'idiot-proof' but remember shooting standards dropped when SUSAT (basic optical) was introduced. Some of the sights being looked at are an improvement, but there is no perfect solution. The Eotech sights are better for reflex shots (that's why the Plod like them), the Elcan is similar to SUSAT, and so is the ACOG to a degree.

Sooner or later, it's got to go 'Play-Station' to fully integrate with FIST.
 

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