"Surplus" uniform/ bad optics, or good business?

longhair

Old-Salt
This RFD originates from a Post with a photo in Current Affairs - Russian Troop Movements Reported Near Ukraine, in which a recovered combatants body was pictured, found wearing an article of uniform with a sewn (but not OEM?) Union Flag patch, and a Royal Marine Commando shoulder patch.

My personal view is that this is a "bad thing". Both sides could use this to impute a particular country's support, to cause difficulties for any diplomatic activity, or to enrage one faction or another.

The most likely origin of this piece of kit was that it was on the surplus market, and bought by a privateer, contractor or volunteer quite legally. Somebody engaged, and killed, in the Rus/Ukr conflict can't really be accusing of walting around,
and no doubt hoped that it was good kit. Certainly it was a once in a lifetime purchase ...

Some nations have very strict rules about the removal of all patches/slides/TRFs name tags and subsequent destruction of recognisable national uniform.

My view is informed by the way that, as a non-serving civvy, I would be required to dress appropriately whilst on base, and would be allocated kit which bore no unit/rank insignia - only a name tag could be applied. Very protective of what the insignia stood for indeed, so I find it strange that items can be disposed of with such little care.

It is of course possible that the jacket was worn by the original issuee - should insignia have been removed?

( FAO @Nemesis44UK and any others who might have a view )
 
This RFD originates from a Post with a photo in Current Affairs - Russian Troop Movements Reported Near Ukraine, in which a recovered combatants body was pictured, found wearing an article of uniform with a sewn (but not OEM?) Union Flag patch, and a Royal Marine Commando shoulder patch.

My personal view is that this is a "bad thing". Both sides could use this to impute a particular country's support, to cause difficulties for any diplomatic activity, or to enrage one faction or another.

The most likely origin of this piece of kit was that it was on the surplus market, and bought by a privateer, contractor or volunteer quite legally. Somebody engaged, and killed, in the Rus/Ukr conflict can't really be accusing of walting around,
and no doubt hoped that it was good kit. Certainly it was a once in a lifetime purchase ...

Some nations have very strict rules about the removal of all patches/slides/TRFs name tags and subsequent destruction of recognisable national uniform.

My view is informed by the way that, as a non-serving civvy, I would be required to dress appropriately whilst on base, and would be allocated kit which bore no unit/rank insignia - only a name tag could be applied. Very protective of what the insignia stood for indeed, so I find it strange that items can be disposed of with such little care.

It is of course possible that the jacket was worn by the original issuee - should insignia have been removed?

( FAO @Nemesis44UK and any others who might have a view )

It makes **** all difference to the war in the Ukriane.
Most british squaddies don't really give a shit about the insignia either.
 
Sometime ago, a bloke in the US (a plumber?) had his 'written off' 4x4, complete with his name and company logo on the side, sent to some sandy place and it was filmed being used by ISIS?
He was quite unhappy as I recall.
 

BigBob101

War Hero
Sometime ago, a bloke in the US (a plumber?) had his 'written off' 4x4, complete with his name and company logo on the side, sent to some sandy place and it was filmed being used by ISIS?
He was quite unhappy as I recall.
I don't think he appreciated all the angry phone calls, understandable really.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
This RFD originates from a Post with a photo in Current Affairs - Russian Troop Movements Reported Near Ukraine, in which a recovered combatants body was pictured, found wearing an article of uniform with a sewn (but not OEM?) Union Flag patch, and a Royal Marine Commando shoulder patch.

My personal view is that this is a "bad thing". Both sides could use this to impute a particular country's support, to cause difficulties for any diplomatic activity, or to enrage one faction or another.

The most likely origin of this piece of kit was that it was on the surplus market, and bought by a privateer, contractor or volunteer quite legally. Somebody engaged, and killed, in the Rus/Ukr conflict can't really be accusing of walting around,
and no doubt hoped that it was good kit. Certainly it was a once in a lifetime purchase ...

Some nations have very strict rules about the removal of all patches/slides/TRFs name tags and subsequent destruction of recognisable national uniform.

My view is informed by the way that, as a non-serving civvy, I would be required to dress appropriately whilst on base, and would be allocated kit which bore no unit/rank insignia - only a name tag could be applied. Very protective of what the insignia stood for indeed, so I find it strange that items can be disposed of with such little care.

It is of course possible that the jacket was worn by the original issuee - should insignia have been removed?

( FAO @Nemesis44UK and any others who might have a view )
You've been informed that army surplus turns up all over the place with different types of insignia attached.

Go and buy a para smock with para wings attached. Nobody cares. (Alhough you might find it awkward in a Colchester pub.)

Given your posts on the Ukraine war thread, and now this one, you seem to be obsessing about it.

Most of us that served with different Regiments were issued with all sorts of different insignia on arrival. I've no idea what happened to it all. But I do know that It was a pain in the arrse then, and of zero consequence now.
 
@dogmeat - this isn't the NAAFI, if you don't have anything constructive to add, why not leave it?

Because the question had already been asked and answered in another thread.

While this thread isn't in the NAAFI yet, it deserves to be hoofed into The Hole rather than pandering to someone's odd obsession with the theory that use of surplus kit in Ukraine proves that UK ex-SF are up to something dodgy in Ukraine.
 

Ritch

LE
Moderator
While this thread isn't in the NAAFI yet, it deserves to be hoofed into The Hole

Well when you get your ban hammer and mug, you can move stuff to wherever you decide they belong, can't you?

It's not in the NAAFI, so grown up rules apply here.
 
This RFD originates from a Post with a photo in Current Affairs - Russian Troop Movements Reported Near Ukraine, in which a recovered combatants body was pictured, found wearing an article of uniform with a sewn (but not OEM?) Union Flag patch, and a Royal Marine Commando shoulder patch.

My personal view is that this is a "bad thing". Both sides could use this to impute a particular country's support, to cause difficulties for any diplomatic activity, or to enrage one faction or another.

The most likely origin of this piece of kit was that it was on the surplus market, and bought by a privateer, contractor or volunteer quite legally. Somebody engaged, and killed, in the Rus/Ukr conflict can't really be accusing of walting around,
and no doubt hoped that it was good kit. Certainly it was a once in a lifetime purchase ...

Some nations have very strict rules about the removal of all patches/slides/TRFs name tags and subsequent destruction of recognisable national uniform.

My view is informed by the way that, as a non-serving civvy, I would be required to dress appropriately whilst on base, and would be allocated kit which bore no unit/rank insignia - only a name tag could be applied. Very protective of what the insignia stood for indeed, so I find it strange that items can be disposed of with such little care.

It is of course possible that the jacket was worn by the original issuee - should insignia have been removed?

( FAO @Nemesis44UK and any others who might have a view )
The matter of badges worn by any random combatant could be used for propaganda purposes, but also anything else could on the slightest ‘evidence’ or non evidence - particularly of note being recent claims by Putin that the SAS are in Ukraine under the guise of medics, or QAnon types claiming that Chris Ryan Andy McNab has been captured and executed

A short while ago I heard an officer giving the advice that if anyone intends to send their spare wardrobes of kit off to remove any badges, which is a fair call but there are tonnes of surplus clothing out on the surplus market with badges.
The official route for surplus clothing that has gone to the QMs is that it gets piled up in boxes and eventually backloaded where it is gathered and ultimately sold by weight usualy to Army surplus shops etc
The effort of checking everything for badges will outweigh the pennies recovered, and if done in unit would be another stupid task for wasting squaddies time.

A lot of items that eventually make it to the surplus market has come from car boot sales and eBay when soldiers leave and find all their extra items in the garage or attic, but didn’t have to hand it back

Usually these end up being worn by students or airsofters.
Nobody really cares that a spotty teenager sat in the park has an array of badges, and half of arrse has supplemented their beer money selling their rare SAS y fronts to the airsofters
Provided they aren’t pulling full on Walt skills for fraudulent purposes the Walt’s are probably pitied for their mental health issue that causes them to seek this attention

Walt hunters get upset, but are generally held in disdain and suspicion
 
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longhair

Old-Salt
Given your posts on the Ukraine war thread, and now this one, you seem to be obsessing about it.
Perhaps it seems that way. I can only speak from my experience of QMs going to some lengths to ensure that we were not wearing anything that was identifiable with a particular unit - even to the extent of dishing out new stuff as the quicker answer. There must have been a reason.

In addition, when I was presented with something bearing the cap badge as a "thank you", it was made clear that it was for private display, not to be worn. They were difficult times, but perhaps the current situation exceeds that? With that background perhaps my curiosity about the current apparent carelessness with regard to identifiable kit may be understood, even if it's misplaced, and not relevant today.

Here's a piece, albeit from a little while ago, on the USAF perspective:

and here's another from US:

 
The effort of checking everything for badges will outweigh the pennies recovered, and if done in unit would be another stupid task for wasting squaddies time.

There are COs and QMs reading your post and thinking what a great idea.
 
Perhaps it seems that way. I can only speak from my experience of QMs going to some lengths to ensure that we were not wearing anything that was identifiable with a particular unit - even to the extent of dishing out new stuff as the quicker answer. There must have been a reason.

Unless you were SAS, I cant think why a QMs would give a shit,


In addition, when I was presented with something bearing the cap badge as a "thank you", it was made clear that it was for private display, not to be worn. They were difficult times, but perhaps the current situation exceeds that? With that background perhaps my curiosity about the current apparent carelessness with regard to identifiable kit may be understood, even if it's misplaced, and not relevant today.

Wear what you like, when you like as a civvie


Here's a piece, albeit from a little while ago, on the USAF perspective:

and here's another from US:


Dont throw your uniforms away in an active warzone is not the same as someone flogging their SF legging at a car boot sale in the UK.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Perhaps it seems that way. I can only speak from my experience of QMs going to some lengths to ensure that we were not wearing anything that was identifiable with a particular unit - even to the extent of dishing out new stuff as the quicker answer. There must have been a reason.

In addition, when I was presented with something bearing the cap badge as a "thank you", it was made clear that it was for private display, not to be worn. They were difficult times, but perhaps the current situation exceeds that? With that background perhaps my curiosity about the current apparent carelessness with regard to identifiable kit may be understood, even if it's misplaced, and not relevant today.

Here's a piece, albeit from a little while ago, on the USAF perspective:

and here's another from US:

Nothing new here. Some uniform is classified as ACTO - Attractive to Criminal and Terrorist Organisations and must be disposed of by destruction rather than sale.

Loads of stuff makes it onto Ebay and surplus including BA carriers, ballistic plates, you name it. Some QMs you see, can't be arsed with following the rules and many ex-soldiers like to keep stuff (me included I'm afraid).

None of it's is evidence of some black op in Ukraine although I am shocked by Chris Ryan's demise, was he on the same railway sabotage team that resulted in Andy McNab's death? Personally I thought they'd never serve together again.
 
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