Supporting Israel Is ‘God’s Foreign Policy’

#1
Many conservative Christians say they believe that the president’s support for Israel fulfills a biblical injunction to protect the Jewish state, which some of them think will play a pivotal role in the second coming.

For one thing, white evangelicals make up about a quarter of the electorate. Whatever strains may be creeping into the Israeli-American alliance over Iraq, the Palestinians and Iran, a large part of the Republican Party’s base remains committed to a fiercely pro-Israel agenda that seems likely to have an effect on policy choices.

Dr. Dobson read a statement on his popular radio program expressing “heartache” at the civilian casualties but comparing Israel’s fight to “the Biblical skirmish between little David and mighty Goliath.” He explained, “There sits little Israel with its five million beleaguered Jews, surrounded by five hundred million Muslims whose leaders are determined to drive it into the sea.”

He says he believes the Bible assigns Israel a pivotal role as a harbinger of the second coming. Citing passages from Revelation and Ezekiel, he argues that conflict between Israel and Iran may be a sign that that time is approaching.


In full

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/w...&en=fba77299178204a6&ei=5094&partner=homepage
 
#3
benjaminw1 said:
As they are all heretics it doesn't count...
Not all Jews.

Some have converted to Christianity! :D
 
#4
comparing Israel’s fight to “the Biblical skirmish between little David and mighty Goliath.”
Right, so the people with a well trained and equipped army, a modern airforce and nukes are poor little David and the people with stones and the occasional 30 year old unguided rocket are mighty Goliath.
 
#5
SeaJay said:
comparing Israel’s fight to “the Biblical skirmish between little David and mighty Goliath.”
Right, so the people with a well trained and equipped army, a modern airforce and nukes are poor little David and the people with stones and the occasional 30 year old unguided rocket are mighty Goliath.
They are hardly armed with stones and 30yr old rockets.

Have a look at the armed forces of Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran. Not exactly crappy old tools they've got, now is it?

Oh and the numbers game (5million Isrealis, 300million+ Middle Easterners) always tend to help things
 
#6
Have a look at the armed forces of Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran. Not exactly crappy old tools they've got, now is it?
Which of these nations has the ability and want and stated intention to invade and conquer this plucky little Jewish Alamo (For this is the analogy the speaker intended) tomorrow?

Egypt? No

Syria? No , in fact Israel is rejecting repeated offers of peace talks

Saudi Arabia? Buwahahahahahahhaa

Iran? Rhetoric does not equal intent, or the means to carry out said intent.

Of all these 'threatening' nations, the ones with the most modern equipment are Saudi Arabia and Egypt , neither of which have any intention of doing that any time soon.

Syria is having repeated attempts at peace talks ignored or scorned by Israel, If they were a real threat , the IDF wouldn't have made 'Showing our arrses at Assad' overflights of his dacha, in prelude to the Lebanese unpleasantness.

Iran - I made this comment on another thread some time ago. Alemspellingmistake was referring to the 'Zionist Government of Israel", not the nation of. I did also say using typically Iranian flowery prose to describe his intentions , was dumb as the people most capable of executing a JDAM drive by on him , only understand plain English.

Iran has also promised retaliation , not 'First strike'

I also note Olmhert is in the US.
 
#7
"Dr. Dobson" (Doctor of what and from where one wonders? - the University of Bupkisville?) should be confined to a padded cell and only allowed crayons.
 
#8
PartTimePongo said:
Have a look at the armed forces of Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran. Not exactly crappy old tools they've got, now is it?
Which of these nations has the ability and want and stated intention to invade and conquer this plucky little Jewish Alamo (For this is the analogy the speaker intended) tomorrow?

Egypt? No

Syria? No , in fact Israel is rejecting repeated offers of peace talks

Saudi Arabia? Buwahahahahahahhaa

Iran? Rhetoric does not equal intent, or the means to carry out said intent.

Of all these 'threatening' nations, the ones with the most modern equipment are Saudi Arabia and Egypt , neither of which have any intention of doing that any time soon.

Syria is having repeated attempts at peace talks ignored or scorned by Israel, If they were a real threat , the IDF wouldn't have made 'Showing our arrses at Assad' overflights of his dacha, in prelude to the Lebanese unpleasantness.

Iran - I made this comment on another thread some time ago. Alemspellingmistake was referring to the 'Zionist Government of Israel", not the nation of. I did also say using typically Iranian flowery prose to describe his intentions , was dumb as the people most capable of executing a JDAM drive by on him , only understand plain English.

Iran has also promised retaliation , not 'First strike'

I also note Olmhert is in the US.
Oh, come on!

All of them have the ability and the want to attack (and do some fair damage) Isreal. Yes they may be less vociferous than of past, but you know as well as i, that the arab's (that being a generalisation) play the long game and will no doubt revert back to overt hatred/hostility to Isreal when the political climate changes to their favour.

Since when did a nation's (in this case Iran :roll: ) promise have anything to do with reality? Even our own bloody government promise loads, but deliver SFA!
 
#9
gallowglass said:
"Dr. Dobson" (Doctor of what and from where one wonders? - the University of Bupkisville?) should be confined to a padded cell and only allowed crayons.
Dobson earned a doctorate in child development from the University of Southern California in 1967. He was an Associate Clinical Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Southern California School of Medicine for fourteen years. He spent seventeen years on the staff of the Children's Hospital of Los Angeles in the Division of Child Development and Medical Genetics.

He is a licensed psychologist in California, and is listed in Who's Who in Medicine and Healthcare. He also has a long list of honorary doctorates from various institutions.

At the invitation of presidents and attorneys general, Dobson has also served on government advisory panels and testified at several government hearings. Among many other awards, he has been given the "Layman of the Year" award by the National Association of Evangelicals in 1982, "The Children's Friend" honor by Childhelp USA (an advocate agency against child abuse) in 1987, and the Humanitarian Award by the California Psychological Association in 1988.(Wiki)
 
#10
Oh, come on!

All of them have the ability and the want to attack (and do some fair damage) Isreal. Yes they may be less vociferous than of past, but you know as well as i, that the arab's (that being a generalisation) play the long game and will no doubt revert back to overt hatred/hostility to Isreal when the political climate changes to their favour
OK , let's assume all of them have the ability and the want to attack.

Take Iran for example. How exactly are they going to invade Israel?

Iran launches one Nuke at Tel Aviv in a WCS. How many Nukes would Israel retaliate with? That is a WCS. It is also extremely unlikely. Iran knows the retribution that would re-visit it. Much as MAD worked for 40+ years.

Now let's look at how their Armed Forces and equipment stack up against Israel?

Even during the Lebanese war , Israel was overtly seeking to drag Syria in , Syria resisted.

The rest of the Arab world restricted itself to comdemnation of Israel's actions, much in common with the rest of the free world.

The only thing that is likely to bring the Arab world screaming down on Israel tomorrow, is an overt attack on an Arab capital, like Damascus or Cairo.

Which of these scenarios , since Camp David is more likely to happen?

1. An Arab attack on Israel?
2. An Israeli attack on an Arab nation?

Saying oh come on , and pointing to historical example, whilst ignoring Camp David for example, is the same as pointing at Germany or France and saying "Oh come on, they've attacked us before' whilst ignoring every political or diplomatic initative since.

There are strong and brave men who sought to make a difference, Sadaat and Rabin being 2 of them. Rabin wanted Israel to get on it's own 2 feet, and become the economic powerhouse of the Middle East, and a centre of democratic excellence in an uncertain world. What did he get for his pains?

Without the US handouts , Israel's economy would be in the toilet. The only way to continue to ensure those handouts, is to continue to present every single Arab nation , as a 'credible threat'.

While Israel steadfastly refuses to mature, to establish trading and political links with the rest of the Arab world, this sh*t is going to continue.

Why isn't there a Middle Eastern trading bloc , similar to the EC? It's not like all those nations aren't traditional merchants.

Israel has long ago proven by force of arms, it is not "Poor little Israel" any more. It's now time for them to get mature with it.
 
#11
BoomShackerLacker said:
gallowglass said:
"Dr. Dobson" (Doctor of what and from where one wonders? - the University of Bupkisville?) should be confined to a padded cell and only allowed crayons.
Dobson earned a doctorate in child development from the University of Southern California in 1967. He was an Associate Clinical Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Southern California School of Medicine for fourteen years. He spent seventeen years on the staff of the Children's Hospital of Los Angeles in the Division of Child Development and Medical Genetics.

He is a licensed psychologist in California, and is listed in Who's Who in Medicine and Healthcare. He also has a long list of honorary doctorates from various institutions.

At the invitation of presidents and attorneys general, Dobson has also served on government advisory panels and testified at several government hearings. Among many other awards, he has been given the "Layman of the Year" award by the National Association of Evangelicals in 1982, "The Children's Friend" honor by Childhelp USA (an advocate agency against child abuse) in 1987, and the Humanitarian Award by the California Psychological Association in 1988.(Wiki)
Oh, I see....well then, Dr. Dobson is therefore a well-qualified and well-educated nut.
 
#12
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6097362

A radical is a radical is a radical. Does not matter if he is wearing a turban and spewing hatred in some mosque somewhere or wearing a tie and suit and spewing hatred in some ornate church somewhere. I say burn 'em all.

In the link I posted above, the guy being interviewed is one of the most influential no-politician politicians in America and I understand he is one of the unofficial advisors on mid eastern policies in the WH. His is an extreme view and warrants total repudiation.

This guy offers a counterpoint.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6097356

Warning: Both interviews are heavy in religious tones.
 
#13
PartTimePongo said:
Have a look at the armed forces of Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran. Not exactly crappy old tools they've got, now is it?
Which of these nations has the ability and want and stated intention to invade and conquer this plucky little Jewish Alamo (For this is the analogy the speaker intended) tomorrow?...
Surely you don't suggest that they wouldn't wipe Israel off the map if the technical, political and military cards were in their favor do you PTP? I don't think their intent has changed all that much since '73 (or even '48 for many).
 
#14
Anyone who holds the view espoused in the threads title is living in a dream world - as was John when He first came across His Revelations
 
#15
#16
Virgil said:
PartTimePongo said:
Have a look at the armed forces of Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran. Not exactly crappy old tools they've got, now is it?
Which of these nations has the ability and want and stated intention to invade and conquer this plucky little Jewish Alamo (For this is the analogy the speaker intended) tomorrow?...
Surely you don't suggest that they wouldn't wipe Israel off the map if the technical, political and military cards were in their favor do you PTP?
Of course they would do it. And USA would wipe USSR out 'if the technical, political and military cards were in their favor'.

So it is not something special. Any enemies use to dream about 'wiping out'. Btw Israel now effectively wiped out Palestinian state, is wiping out Palestinian people by killings on a daily basis.

Israel is an enemy of Arabs and Muslim World. It is a reality. How to change this situation? It is only a return of Israel to pre-1967 borders, no less. As current (and apparently future) Israeli government(s) would not return to pre-1967 borders then Israel would remain an enemy and it would be logical to expect dreams about 'wiping out'.
 
#17
KGB_resident said:
How to change this situation? It is only a return of Israel to pre-1967 borders, no less. .
Please explain how this would lead to an everlasting peace? Utopian thinking and very theoretical, a big chance for Israel to take. This is hardly a game of theory but I would be interested to hear how you think this would realistically work.
 
#18
KGB_resident said:
Israel now effectively wiped out Palestinian state, is wiping out Palestinian people by killings on a daily basis.
Let's examine that. There are roughly 9.5 million Palestinians in the world, most concentrated on the West Bank, Gaza and Jordan. According to this Palestinian source their have been 3,670 Palestinian deaths from 2000 to 2005 due to belligerent Israeli actions. Unfortunate certainly and needless in many cases, but not exactly the 'wiping out' of a whole people(I'm not defending all Israeli military actions by any means).

Israel is an enemy of Arabs and Muslim World. It is a reality. How to change this situation? It is only a return of Israel to pre-1967 borders, no less. As current (and apparently future) Israeli government(s) would not return to pre-1967 borders then Israel would remain an enemy and it would be logical to expect dreams about 'wiping out'.
I think you're being overly optimistic.
 
#19
Agent_Smith said:
SeaJay said:
comparing Israel’s fight to “the Biblical skirmish between little David and mighty Goliath.”
Right, so the people with a well trained and equipped army, a modern airforce and nukes are poor little David and the people with stones and the occasional 30 year old unguided rocket are mighty Goliath.
They are hardly armed with stones and 30yr old rockets.

Have a look at the armed forces of Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran. Not exactly crappy old tools they've got, now is it?

Oh and the numbers game (5million Isrealis, 300million+ Middle Easterners) always tend to help things
Isnt this bit of the argument a little dated ? - and it certainly pays no regard to the geography. Egypt and Saudi are pretty much US clients - and BAe do pretty well out of supplying the Saudis kit. Many of their officers train in the UK. Syria is probably a genuine threat to Israel in the sense that a badly equipped, badly trained army is a threat.

Is Iran a real threat ? Some Presidential rhetoric - and even then the translations are contested - but the reality is that Iran is a very long way from Israel. If it ever did have a nuke is one thing - but a move on the ground ? I think not. Take a look at a map and think about the logistics.
 
#20
Arik said:
KGB_resident said:
How to change this situation? It is only a return of Israel to pre-1967 borders, no less. .
Please explain how this would lead to an everlasting peace? Utopian thinking and very theoretical, a big chance for Israel to take. This is hardly a game of theory but I would be interested to hear how you think this would realistically work.
Maybe the US could take the Russian immigrants ? That would free up a bit of space - a million people worth. Its not as if many of them are actually religious Jews after all. Most are economic migrants who would probably jump at the opportunity. If all those with second passports left too that would make a bit more space. Leave "Israel" for those religious jews who really believe rather than those who simply search for a good place to live ?
 

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