Support Vehicle and System Acceptance

#1
Guys,

Just to let you all know that yesterday the Support Vehicle passed its Systems Acceptance and so we will now start delivering vehicles into Ashchurch ready for the initial In-service date at the end of June

On behalf of MAN ERF UK Ltd, we would like to that all those in the MOD, both military and civil servants, who have helped us reach this important milestone.
 
#2
Man_at_MAN said:
Guys,

Just to let you all know that yesterday the Support Vehicle passed its Systems Acceptance and so we will now start delivering vehicles into Ashchurch ready for the initial In-service date at the end of June

On behalf of MAN ERF UK Ltd, we would like to that all those in the MOD, both military and civil servants, who have helped us reach this important milestone.
I noticed some olive green trucks on the opposite side of the M5 the other day. I didn't recognise them but they looked as if they were MAN trucks.

Well done on passing System Acceptance.

Now, we will start using them and breaking them in ways which you and your team could never imagine!

BTW, what's the definition of ISD then?

Litotes
 
#3
In Service Date in June/July means that the vehicles (161) are in Ashchurch, keys in the ignition, owned by MOD, full CES on board and spares, documentation support package in place for the troops to use.
Unlike previous buys where, "the user handbooks will follow in a years time" or "you will get CES items as they are delivered to Donnington"!!!
 
#4
Man_at_MAN said:
Guys,

Just to let you all know that yesterday the Support Vehicle passed its Systems Acceptance and so we will now start delivering vehicles into Ashchurch ready for the initial In-service date at the end of June

On behalf of MAN ERF UK Ltd, we would like to that all those in the MOD, both military and civil servants, who have helped us reach this important milestone.
It was a pleasure, Man at MAN, just remember though, just under 4 years to go!!!!
 
#5
Interesting to see if someone comes back and updates this thread on what is not ready at ISD.

May sound cynical but been there many times before and now employed by a Defence firm so know the system a bit.

Are there and LDs on the contract if delivery targets are not met?
 
#6
Hagar,

Not sure what you are refering to ref LD's.

ISD is as CH512O states, 161 vehciels owned by the MOD, sat at Ashchurch with CES and Pubs. Various spares and S&TE have already been delivered to Donnington for MOD to distribute, plus Driver and Maintainer training is happening as we speak, so not sure what else we can do.
 
#7
CH512O said:
In Service Date in June/July means that the vehicles (161) are in Ashchurch, keys in the ignition, owned by MOD, full CES on board and spares, documentation support package in place for the troops to use.
Unlike previous buys where, "the user handbooks will follow in a years time" or "you will get CES items as they are delivered to Donnington"!!!
That's an interesting definition of ISD!

I am about to display my ignorance of the project by asking where the User and REME training is?

REME tools and test kit?

Or, is this a CLS package?

Litotes
 
#8
Litotes said:
CH512O said:
In Service Date in June/July means that the vehicles (161) are in Ashchurch, keys in the ignition, owned by MOD, full CES on board and spares, documentation support package in place for the troops to use.
Unlike previous buys where, "the user handbooks will follow in a years time" or "you will get CES items as they are delivered to Donnington"!!!
That's an interesting definition of ISD!

I am about to display my ignorance of the project by asking where the User and REME training is?

REME tools and test kit?

Or, is this a CLS package?

Litotes
User training is, at first "train the trainers" stylee, with Vosper Thornycroft contracted to provide. As the ISD vehicles are mainly going to training establishments, these will be the people in line for training first.
After that, the next delivery of vehicles will occur around Oct time, but dont quote me on that. This will be the Units that are higlighted in the big plan of things to get them first. Where these guys get trained, not too sure as im not in the training scope of things.
At the moment the REME side of life are getting Maintainer courses at Bordon. This again is VT led and the first one started last week. Again highlighting Units that will get them first and the initial Training Units.

I think my definition was quite good for ISD, more on the ground level than Orrifcer speak! :wink:
 
#9
REME tools and Test Kit.

All taken care of, all Units getting the vehicles, the REME will be issued, on completion of Maintainer course and recieving vehicles, the MANCAT laptop and software. This allows him/her to plug-in and "look inside the vehicle system". Again this is all part of the ISD definintion, in that the vehicle is fully supported.
 
#10
REME Training at Bordon, bids through GSV IPT.

User training taking place in Unit Locations.

As for S&TE, no CLS package, but a 5 yr Parts and Labour Warranty. Should you break it and you want to fix it you can, if not it will go to an MAN dealer, very much like Leyland Drops when it first came in.
 
#11
Hagar said:
Interesting to see if someone comes back and updates this thread on what is not ready at ISD.

May sound cynical but been there many times before and now employed by a Defence firm so know the system a bit.

Are there and LDs on the contract if delivery targets are not met?
I think the ISD target of 161 is a achievable amount. I was in Ashchurch last Fri and there must of been 20 odd in various stages of preperation. Bear in mind, the vehicles are not made here but abroad but then come over for loadbed fitment, and final prep at Ashchurch. All the variants (not physical vahicles ie 161) that are in ISD have been tested and "exist" so i think they will all be there in June/July.
Also, MAN are not theoritcally paid till ISD is reached!
 
#12
Thanks for that information, Guys.

Previous projects have always insisted that ISD was based on delivery to units. My memory is not what it was but I think the ISD for CR2 was one regiment equipped with its complement of tanks (57).

The QRD was a month before the ISD. IIRC!

Litotes
 
#13
Litotes said:
Thanks for that information, Guys.

Previous projects have always insisted that ISD was based on delivery to units. My memory is not what it was but I think the ISD for CR2 was one regiment equipped with its complement of tanks (57).

The QRD was a month before the ISD. IIRC!

Litotes
I suppose that is possible with a small contract like that, and i dont mean in terms of money etc but in amount. This contract affects probably 95% of Units across all 3 Services. When it comes to 6900 vehcicles approx, it was easier to term this ISD like it is.
 
#14
Litotes,

Q readiness dates are in the dim and distant past and as I am sure you will recall, CR2 was delayed for sometime to ensure that all the support was in place. How lonely and empty the Scots DG tank-park looked in Fally.

As for ISD being equipment in units, it depends what the contract says.

One of the best compliments we received at a meeting just before MVTP, was from a 2* civil servant who said that it was the first programme that he knew of where the supporting pubs etc were available to the trials team in a format resembling that which they would receive in-service.

I know it may appear that I am biased, but this is probably the first major programme to see the full benefits of ILS, and the fact that spares are currently sat on shelves in Donnington, training is taking place in units and Bordon, plus CES and User Handbooks are sitting in the cabs, is testament to the fact that when done properly, ILS is of huge benefit to a programme.
 
#15
LD = liquidated damages if delivery targets not met. Looks like all bases covered and, if that is the case, my congrats on a job well done.

QRD is normally at least 1 month prior to ISD if you have that luxury - gives opportunity for support details to be confirmed and, more usually, a bit of a buffer for project delivery slippage!!
 
#16
Hagar,

Cannot discuss contractual matters, but we do not get paid any money till after ISD is declared.

QRD is now known as LSD (Logistic Support Date). Yes it is still declared about 1 month before ISD (i.e. end of May), and as I said before, we are well on the way to hitting that as major parts of this requirement have already been put in place and we are just working to finishing up the rest.

Items currently outstanding include the training of sufficient users and maintainers to operate and fix the kit. This training has, and is taking place, so it will all be done for when the units get the vehicles. You are constrained in certain aspects by the fact that you cannot train loads of people up months before they get the kit as you run the risk of skill fade etc. We therefore produced a training plan that would ensure that this is covered.

We cannot therefore say as of today that the MOD has enough trained users, but we can say that with the current and planned course, the MOD will have enough users. I know this may seem long-winded in the explanation, but I think it important that I try and give as greater picture as I can, within the bonds on contractual and commercial confidence/liability.
 
#17
CH512O said:
Litotes said:
Thanks for that information, Guys.

Previous projects have always insisted that ISD was based on delivery to units. My memory is not what it was but I think the ISD for CR2 was one regiment equipped with its complement of tanks (57).

The QRD was a month before the ISD. IIRC!

Litotes
I suppose that is possible with a small contract like that, and i dont mean in terms of money etc but in amount. This contract affects probably 95% of Units across all 3 Services. When it comes to 6900 vehcicles approx, it was easier to term this ISD like it is.
Thanks. I hadn't realised how large the contract was! It's an interesting way of doing it but actually builds in some flexibility for the MOD because if the vehicles are delivered to Ashchurch, they can then be moved anywhere they are needed without a major drama!

Litotes
 
#18
Litotes said:
CH512O said:
Litotes said:
Thanks for that information, Guys.

Previous projects have always insisted that ISD was based on delivery to units. My memory is not what it was but I think the ISD for CR2 was one regiment equipped with its complement of tanks (57).

The QRD was a month before the ISD. IIRC!

Litotes
I suppose that is possible with a small contract like that, and i dont mean in terms of money etc but in amount. This contract affects probably 95% of Units across all 3 Services. When it comes to 6900 vehcicles approx, it was easier to term this ISD like it is.
Thanks. I hadn't realised how large the contract was! It's an interesting way of doing it but actually builds in some flexibility for the MOD because if the vehicles are delivered to Ashchurch, they can then be moved anywhere they are needed without a major drama!

Litotes
And i know i tend to sound like a record on this subject, but it willl change the way we do business! So your comment about size of contract reflects what we can get out of it. We can carry more and look the part ( :wink: ). Instead of driving around in trucks of different types and ages. Same chassis means easier training, spares and operating.
As point of note, the American MTVR (US version of SV) off-road, the carrying capacity of the trucks was reduced by up to a 1/2, SV gives you max AUW, on all terrains.
 
#19
CH5120 wrote"Instead of driving around in trucks of different types and ages. Same chassis means easier training, spares and operating".

So that'll not include the TA who aren't getting it, having Bedfords & Ley Daf reduced, Recovery vehicles taken off them within 8 years & driving around in Landrover 90's & 110's until 2014 at the earliest then :x
 
#20
Englishspringer said:
CH5120 wrote"Instead of driving around in trucks of different types and ages. Same chassis means easier training, spares and operating".

So that'll not include the TA who aren't getting it, having Bedfords & Ley Daf reduced, Recovery vehicles taken off them within 8 years & driving around in Landrover 90's & 110's until 2014 at the earliest then :x
Dont worry, some Regular Units still drive in 110 and 90's. But with more and more TA taking part in Ops etc, you will find yourselves driving them earlier than you think.

Recovery Vehicle is replacing Foden Recovery as well so you may see that in your Unit, but one of the reasons you loosing your Fodens is probably due to vehicles on Ops getting hammered and why try keeping a truck tour after tour on the road when you can use a Foden that isnt used as much in a TA Unit. Im only assuming this and may not be correct but seems a reasonable idea.
 

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