Sunnis desperate for US to STAY!?!?!

#2
"Americans come here, and then there is no killing. As soon as American go away -- killing everywhere," he said.
Bollox! The Americans are bullet/ied/suicide bomber/RPG magnets! I smell.. <sniff>... a bit of propoganda?
 
#3
I'd have been more inclined to believe this , if the headline was "Sunnis desperate to make us realise we are on the same team as regards the future face of Iraq and those Persian dogs over the shatt al-arab"
 
#4
Bollox! The Americans are bullet/ied/suicide bomber/RPG magnets! I smell.. <sniff>... a bit of propoganda?
San Francisco papers are not usually considered mouthpiecies of Ne-con propaganda maybe if it was the Washington Times you might have a argument but the People Republic of San Francisco , I don't think so.
 
#5
Iraqi government wants US to stay. Kurds want it too. Shias voted for the government and I suspect adore their liberators. As last Sunnis, they also want US to stay.

Who are these mysterious insurgents then?
 
#6
Jordanians,syrians,iranians,saudi's,yemeni'es I could go on Sergey!!!
 
#7
Iraqi government wants US to stay. Kurds want it too. Shias voted for the government and I suspect adore their liberators. As last Sunnis, they also want US to stay.

Who are these mysterious insurgents then?

Russian spies?
 
#8
KGB_resident said:
Iraqi government wants US to stay. Kurds want it too. Shias voted for the government and I suspect adore their liberators. As last Sunnis, they also want US to stay.

Who are these mysterious insurgents then?
Mix of loyalists to the old regime ousted by the coallition invasion, anti coallition terrorists, pro Iranian terrorists and common criminals ?
 
#9
NotyouAgain said:
KGB_resident said:
Iraqi government wants US to stay. Kurds want it too. Shias voted for the government and I suspect adore their liberators. As last Sunnis, they also want US to stay.

Who are these mysterious insurgents then?
Mix of loyalists to the old regime ousted by the coallition invasion, anti coallition terrorists, pro Iranian terrorists and common criminals ?
The loyalists? You are joking. No one insurgent group has claimed restoration of old regime as its goal.

Anti coalition terrorists? So they are terrorists only toward the Coalition and after the withdrawal they will become peacefull citizens.

Pro Iranian terrorists? Yes, it is a very serious problem. Recall me please the cause ot the war. Maybe it was pro Iranian terrorists?

Common criminals? There is a lot of them in US. 2 mlns. are in the jail without any hope that this number will be lower soon.
 
#10
KGB_resident said:
NotyouAgain said:
KGB_resident said:
Iraqi government wants US to stay. Kurds want it too. Shias voted for the government and I suspect adore their liberators. As last Sunnis, they also want US to stay.

Who are these mysterious insurgents then?
Mix of loyalists to the old regime ousted by the coallition invasion, anti coallition terrorists, pro Iranian terrorists and common criminals ?
The loyalists? You are joking. No one insurgent group has claimed restoration of old regime as its goal.
Why would I be joking? Whats so odd about assuming some of the "insurgents" are those who lost the most when the regime that they benefited from fell? Why wouldn't you get groups that were loyal to the previous govt continue on the fight?

Anti coalition terrorists? So they are terrorists only toward the Coalition and after the withdrawal they will become peacefull citizens.
Or terrorists who are there only to attack and kill coalition forces. Bit like a lot of terrorists who went into Cechenya to fight the perfidious Russian infidels (that'd be your lot).

Pro Iranian terrorists? Yes, it is a very serious problem. Recall me please the cause ot the war. Maybe it was pro Iranian terrorists?
You have a point? Fancy making it?

Common criminals? There is a lot of them in US. 2 mlns. are in the jail without any hope that this number will be lower soon.
I'm going to assumer that compared to the # of Iraqi criminals kidnapping people for money those criminals who wore US BDU's are pretty much in the minority, maybe if they were Russians I'd automatically assume they were criminals thugs and 'culturally insensitive' buffoons.
 
#11
The US is seen by the Sunni community as a shield from Shia death squads that are killing Sunni's in revenge for year's of abuse by the Sunni minority.
 
#12
NotyouAgain said:
KGB_resident said:
NotyouAgain said:
KGB_resident said:
Iraqi government wants US to stay. Kurds want it too. Shias voted for the government and I suspect adore their liberators. As last Sunnis, they also want US to stay.

Who are these mysterious insurgents then?
Mix of loyalists to the old regime ousted by the coallition invasion, anti coallition terrorists, pro Iranian terrorists and common criminals ?
The loyalists? You are joking. No one insurgent group has claimed restoration of old regime as its goal.
Why would I be joking? Whats so odd about assuming some of the "insurgents" are those who lost the most when the regime that they benefited from fell? Why wouldn't you get groups that were loyal to the previous govt continue on the fight?
Those that indeed hugely benefited during Saddam's rule are at power again. Main motivation of the "insurgents" is nationalism not support of Saddam.

NotyouAgain said:
Anti coalition terrorists? So they are terrorists only toward the Coalition and after the withdrawal they will become peacefull citizens.
Or terrorists who are there only to attack and kill coalition forces. Bit like a lot of terrorists who went into Cechenya to fight the perfidious Russian infidels (that'd be your lot).
Chechen terrorists committed Baslan atrocity, captured thearte centre in Moscow, blown planes, block-houses. There was a lot of suicide bombers outside Chechnya. No one Iraqi "anti-coalition terrorist" made any harm in USA or in the UK.

NotyouAgain said:
Pro Iranian terrorists? Yes, it is a very serious problem. Recall me please the cause ot the war. Maybe it was pro Iranian terrorists?
You have a point? Fancy making it?
My point is clear. Before the war no one heard about "pro Iranian terrorists" in Iraq. They emerged after the invasion.

NotyouAgain said:
Common criminals? There is a lot of them in US. 2 mlns. are in the jail without any hope that this number will be lower soon.
I'm going to assumer that compared to the # of Iraqi criminals kidnapping people for money those criminals who wore US BDU's are pretty much in the minority, maybe if they were Russians I'd automatically assume they were criminals thugs and 'culturally insensitive' buffoons.
I meant that a problem with criminal activity in USA is serious enough to be resolved first.
 
#13
KGB_resident said:
Those that indeed hugely benefited during Saddam's rule are at power again. Main motivation of the "insurgents" is nationalism not support of Saddam.
Where did I say they would be in support of an individual? i said previous regime, ba'athists, sunni's who benefited from that regime. Doesnt mean they may want to put Saddam Hussein back in power.

Chechen terrorists committed Baslan atrocity, captured thearte centre in Moscow, blown planes, block-houses. There was a lot of suicide bombers outside Chechnya. No one Iraqi "anti-coalition terrorist" made any harm in USA or in the UK.
Wow!, amazing! , the reasons we went invaded Iraq were completely different to the reasons Russia sent troops in Chechenya! .. who'da thunked it! What an amazing revelation! My g-d that opens up an entire new train of thought! .. sarcasm over

Re-read what I said, terrorists who have travelled to Iraq to attack coallition forces (I'm including Iraqi govt forces in the coallition), the same as arabs and other muslims who have gone to Chechenya to kill Russians.

My point is clear. Before the war no one heard about "pro Iranian terrorists" in Iraq. They emerged after the invasion.
So you dont believe that Iranians have supported various 'militia' groups in Iraq? I mean why would they be interested in meddling in the affairs of Iraq ... nope cant think of any reason can you? (1980 invasion of Iran by Iraq, Al Shatr waterway dispute, dislike to having a 'pro US' regime and US forces on their southern border)

I meant that a problem with criminal activity in USA is serious enough to be resolved first.
And completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
 
#14
KGB_resident said:
NotyouAgain said:
KGB_resident said:
Iraqi government wants US to stay. Kurds want it too. Shias voted for the government and I suspect adore their liberators. As last Sunnis, they also want US to stay.

Who are these mysterious insurgents then?
Mix of loyalists to the old regime ousted by the coallition invasion, anti coallition terrorists, pro Iranian terrorists and common criminals ?
The loyalists? You are joking. No one insurgent group has claimed restoration of old regime as its goal.

Anti coalition terrorists? So they are terrorists only toward the Coalition and after the withdrawal they will become peacefull citizens.

Pro Iranian terrorists? Yes, it is a very serious problem. Recall me please the cause ot the war. Maybe it was pro Iranian terrorists?

Common criminals? There is a lot of them in US. 2 mlns. are in the jail without any hope that this number will be lower soon.
No they aren't terrorists towards the Coalition, insurgents who cross the line into blowing themselves up in marketplaces causing high civilian casualty counts or walking into schools shooting teachers cross the line into terrorism. Perhaps instead of excusing the pro-Iranian terrorists who target Sunnis because of the US intervention you hold them accountable for their own actions. The logic of your argument as stated boils down to; "Well those terrorists had to massacre two dozen Sunnis because of the US invasions", seems rather weak. Put the blame where it belongs and don't make excuses for their actions.

Although it really was just a cheap shot by you with no relevance to the discussion the increase in offenders in US jails is a large part because of the 'three strike's laws in effect. You commit three serious criminal felonies on three seperate occasions then you are given a mandatory long-term sentence of 25 years or more. I'm not a complete fan of the approach but it's kept criminals of the street.

Besides, when it comes to 'per capita' incarceration it seems the US is in good company--Russia is second in the world. ;-)
 
#15
As with any thread that KGB gets into,it generally boils down to US v Russia.You really do not know anything about the situation in Iraq,as shown in your US crims in jail theory.How that equates to criminal activitey in Iraq is irrelevent,they can be as big a danger as any motivated insurgent.Stick to Luxembourgs foreign policy its more your depth.
 
#16
easymoney said:
As with any thread that KGB gets into,it generally boils down to US v Russia.You really do not know anything about the situation in Iraq,as shown in your US crims in jail theory.How that equates to criminal activitey in Iraq is irrelevent,they can be as big a danger as any motivated insurgent.Stick to Luxembourgs foreign policy its more your depth.
For all the problems some here have with him Sergey's usually been level-headed and thoughtful in his responses to me. But there is that underlying antagonism-criticism-resentment, name your poison, towards the US in his approach. Not atypical of most of the Russians I met over there, naturally different to those I know living in the US of course.
 
#17
easymoney said:
As with any thread that KGB gets into,it generally boils down to US v Russia.
Me? Our friend NotyouAgain mentiond Chechnya and Russia.

easymoney said:
You really do not know anything about the situation in Iraq...
Well, my knowledge is based on the main-stream news-sources as the BBC. Probably the BBC is unaware about the situation in Iraq too. I fancy that there is a blossom of democracy and Iraqis all as one fight shoulder to shoulder with coalition troops against a handful of (mainly foreign) terrorists.

easymoney said:
...as shown in your US crims in jail theory.How that equates to criminal activitey in Iraq is irrelevent,they can be as big a danger as any motivated insurgent.Stick to Luxembourgs foreign policy its more your depth.
Forreign policy is like a cheese with holes. Luxemburg foreing policy? It is something like holes without cheese.
 
#18
Virgil said:
KGB_resident said:
NotyouAgain said:
KGB_resident said:
Iraqi government wants US to stay. Kurds want it too. Shias voted for the government and I suspect adore their liberators. As last Sunnis, they also want US to stay.

Who are these mysterious insurgents then?
Mix of loyalists to the old regime ousted by the coallition invasion, anti coallition terrorists, pro Iranian terrorists and common criminals ?
The loyalists? You are joking. No one insurgent group has claimed restoration of old regime as its goal.

Anti coalition terrorists? So they are terrorists only toward the Coalition and after the withdrawal they will become peacefull citizens.

Pro Iranian terrorists? Yes, it is a very serious problem. Recall me please the cause ot the war. Maybe it was pro Iranian terrorists?

Common criminals? There is a lot of them in US. 2 mlns. are in the jail without any hope that this number will be lower soon.
No they aren't terrorists towards the Coalition, insurgents who cross the line into blowing themselves up in marketplaces causing high civilian casualty counts or walking into schools shooting teachers cross the line into terrorism.
Absolutely agree. Those who indiscriminately kill children, women, the old... are no doubt terrorists. But many insurgents became insurgents namely because they saw how many children, women, the old were killed. I suspect, that these revenge-hungry Iraqi nationalists are being called anti-coalition terrorists by our friend.

My point: speaking about Iraqi insurgents it would be a mistake to present them as a band of only terrorists. The insurgents (at least the majority) have sufficient and serious causes to fight against the Coalition.

Virgil said:
Perhaps instead of excusing the pro-Iranian terrorists who target Sunnis because of the US intervention you hold them accountable for their own actions. The logic of your argument as stated boils down to; "Well those terrorists had to massacre two dozen Sunnis because of the US invasions", seems rather weak. Put the blame where it belongs and don't make excuses for their actions.
Of course US is not guilty in the terrorist activity of Shia's against Sunnis (and visa versa). It is rather a side effect of the invasion (undesirable but predictable).

Virgil said:
Although it really was just a cheap shot by you with no relevance to the discussion the increase in offenders in US jails is a large part because of the 'three strike's laws in effect. You commit three serious criminal felonies on three seperate occasions then you are given a mandatory long-term sentence of 25 years or more. I'm not a complete fan of the approach but it's kept criminals of the street.
Let's separate the insurgents from criminals. I hope you agree that Iraqi criminals can't be regarded as insurgents. It was my main point. And I made a note that while criminal activity in Iraq is high, it is high too in the USA (I mentioned 2 mlns. in American jails in this context). Also I noted, that it would be logical to expect that the Americans would apply their efforts at home (in the struggle with criminals).

Besides, when it comes to 'per capita' incarceration it seems the US is in good company--Russia is second in the world. ;-)
You are absolutely right.
 
#19
Your theories are like the insurgent who claimed he was there fighting "Until all the foreigners with guns have been defeated". He was a Jordanian.
 
#20
easymoney said:
Your theories are like the insurgent who claimed he was there fighting "Until all the foreigners with guns have been defeated". He was a Jordanian.
My (not theory) but opinion is that the insuregents are mainly not terrorists. They fight on their soil. During 3 years they didn't make even one attempt to commit a terror act in USA or in the UK.

I absolutely disagree with the opinion that the insurgenta are composed from "loyalists", terrorists and criminals. It is not that simple.
 

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