Sunnis and Shias appeal for British to stay on

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Agent_Smith, Jan 12, 2007.

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  1. Are the iraqis developing a dependency on foreign troops, and do we need to ween them off slowly, or force them to take charge with a dose of cold turkey?

  2. Good question. We can't go on policing Iraq and keeping the two sides from throttling each other - remember PIRA? That was only calmed down after 9/11 and that was by the republicans in the US who's just got a dose.

    IMHO, I think it would be preferable for the two sides to go their seperate ways, with the sunnis buggering off up north.

    With the best will in the world, there is going to be trouble without foreign troops. The leaders of the two groups have said themselves that the antagonists are itching to start the ball rolling.
  3. When I was in Basra, we put a lot of effort into keeping the Shias away from the Sunnis. Even then, most of the Sunni mosques were closed because of the threat of attack. The Iraqi police force is corrupt.

    Basically, we can't pull out without this happening.
  4. Perhaps if they stopped throwing shrapnel our way at BAS/Shiba and the palace, oh, and didnt rig IEDs we perhaps would feel more welcome. In my opinion, they have****ed it for themselves. I say pull out and let the flip flops reap what they sow. :evil:
  5. But where would that leave all the good 'flip flops'.
  6. I watched a report on Sky News with the locals stating that they wanted us out and that the local militia would look after them? Confused now.
  7. It's not confusing once you understand that there is no such thing as an "Iraqi". There are a group of people from a large and confusing number of different tribes, religions, economic, political and ethnic groupings that live inside a line drawn on the map by foreigners who were forced to think of themselves as "Iraqis" by a murderous and now deceased dictator. The inability of outsiders to appreciate the difference is at the root of many of our problems out there.

    Some of course do have a primary loyalty to the Iraqi state - most do not. They pay lip service as they did under Saddam while they must, and will abandon any pretence when they do not have to. The Kurds are a good example, they mouth the words to keep the US around and keep their neighbours at bay whilst busy setting up Kurdistan in all but name.

    Generally those who consider that they will be on the winning side once foreigners leave are keen for them to do so, those who feel they will lose want us to stay. Certainly the Iraqi PM wants us to stay, he is kept in power solely by our presence.
  8. I advert You to Gen Lambs article in which He states

    These two polls bely Your statement
  9. I understand that Iraq as a country was drawn up by UK/French and as such, their understanding of their identity is different to ours, although it does raise a further question to understand what exactly the message is that Sky News are trying to communicate.
  10. Not true. The vast majority of Iraqis still want a single Iraq.

    The Sunnis and Shias are not fighting so that can each have their own state. They are fighting for control of Iraq.

    Apart from the Kurds, no-one wants to split up Iraq - not the Americans, not the Iranians, not the Syrians, not the Iraqis themselves.
  11. The Sunnis and Shia are fighting each other for control of Iraq - a single state controlled by the winner. Why split it up when you can have it all ?

    Remember - and this will be very familiar to anyone who was involved in FRY - what they mean when they say a unified Iraq (one ruled by their tribe atop a pile of bodies from the runners-up) is very different to what we mean (a multi-cultural state that respects personal freedoms and the rule of law).
  12. Once again I advert You to General lambs article and the poll that said that 94% of Iraqis want a government of unity - this isn't Shia unity or Sunni unity, but Iraqi unity
  13. Agree much of this 'fitna' business and Shi'ite threat business is coming from the elite Iraqi and external actors. I would say that the majority of Iraqis, still retain a belief in the unity of Iraq and their Iraqi nationalism.
  14. Maybe the 94% should get their act together and do something about the 6% that want to cause trouble in order to acheive their aims.

    I can't understand the thinking. If the violence stops the allied forces can pullout sooner. Then the different groups can go about splitting up the power with out interferance.

    I understand that Iran and Syria don't want 150,000 Yanks in Iraq with nothing to do as W might get ideas about turning the East or West, but surly the majority of Iraqies want to be in a place were they don't need them.
  15. I must confess to thinking most polls poor indications of reality as it is far too easy to slant the answers by slanting the questions.

    However, the main reason I think most of the locals aren't "Iraqis" in terms of primary loyalties is simply that the violence continues. If 94% of the populace genuinely wanted a single unified state with representation from all groupings they would have one by now. Every Iraqi just about has an AK-47 and the old army was 400,000 strong, it's not shortages of arms or training that stops them. It's because they don't want it.

    Of course Iran and Syria are trying to keep the pot boiling by keeping US forces busy so they can't pop next door - but again they can only operate effectively with local support. Ditto AQ for that matter. And different areas of course, they hate each other with a vengeance.