Summer Challenge - Is it worth it?

#1
Out of idle curiosity what are:

1) The numbers attending the various Summer Challenges versus the planned loading?

2) Is all this additional effort really generating incremental Territorial recruits that wouldn't have joined the TA if it hadn't had been for Summer Challenge?

3) Comments from Instructors and survivors

To start the ball rolling - the Southern one being held at Malta Barracks, 88 turned up out of a maximum of 90. Based on initial feedback none of them only joined because of SC, rather they just see it as a quick way of doing it whilst earning some £'s
 
#2
Complete waste of time money and effort! IMOHO of course......

look at the little darlings from units that go on SC then try and find them again a year later.....

because everything is rushed they get no time to assimilate the information taught, its not always taught by the correctly qualified instructors, ie those wit the depth of knowledge, most of the instructors are used to dealin with trained soldiers not recruits, whole different ball game, you dont teach or test recruits MATTs.

The little darlings get away with blue murder and therefore end up unprepared for what military service is really like.


and breath.
 
#3
We have roughly 30 from my unit attending the 38 Bde version, while it looks good on paper how many will still be around for camp this year remains to be seen.
 
#4
Greenbadger said:
Out of idle curiosity what are:

1) The numbers attending the various Summer Challenges versus the planned loading?

2) Is all this additional effort really generating incremental Territorial recruits that wouldn't have joined the TA if it hadn't had been for Summer Challenge?

3) Comments from Instructors and survivors

To start the ball rolling - the Southern one being held at Malta Barracks, 88 turned up out of a maximum of 90. Based on initial feedback none of them only joined because of SC, rather they just see it as a quick way of doing it whilst earning some £'s
I hope some calls were made for reserves to fill the 2 spare places, we had 8 to go and only got 3 places!
 
#5
The 2 missing failed to show on the day and by then it was far too late to call for additional people

Aswell as venting spleens (and I agree with some of the sentiments) does anybody have actual numbers who turned up on the day rather than individual unit returns?
 
#6
PS Even though I'm against SC because of the shear effort, complexity & cost of doing it with all the extra bits (ie 1C, CIC,AT, Driver Training) for no additional SuTs into the TA, I actually think a 10day/15day Camp to do 1A&B is far better than the weekend route - its certainly a lot lot more difficult for the SuT to pass (well it is at Malta Barracks) and I think that the product is better trained - far more of a miltary chip in the brain
 
#7
Greenbadger said:
PS Even though I'm against SC because of the shear effort, complexity & cost of doing it with all the extra bits (ie 1C, CIC,AT, Driver Training) for no additional SuTs into the TA,
eh?
 
#8
what we used to do was the same thing all the now 1a &b over two weeks in summer, or a two week CMS(R) for the recruits who were ready to go on theirs
 
#9
MSR The official rationale for SC is to recruit SuTs into the TA who without SC would not have joined ie that they are an incremental surge to the TA's numbers - basically the "challenge" is what appealed to them
In my experience they would have all joined anyway and would have been able to be trained within the existing weekend training courses/scheduled 2 week camps
ie a lot of additional effort & dosh for no real gain
 
#10
Anything which gets a large number of people into the TA in short order gets my vote.

msr
 
#12
I have always applauded the effort behind SC and think it is great that we put so much thought into getting recruits in the TA. I think that initiatives such is this are necessary if the TA is to survive.
However, I have always thought that the idea is somewhat flawed in that the only people who can do all of the training are students and the unemployed. I stand by to be corrected on this.
Without being disrespectful to both these groups, in my experience the unemployed are exactly that for a reason, and the majority of students (not all) leave the TA as soon as uni is finished.
I also agree with FFBox that the 'trained soldiers' that have arrived back at unit all seem to have been on a jamboree and have problems fitting into the disciplined side of life.
 
#13
I suspect that they would have been RTU'd which is the standard policy for non booked SuTs at Malta barracks, which so I'm told has been repeatedly proved to be the only way of controlling certain units who seem totally incapble of administring their SuTs properly and think that actually doing some work is for the birds!
I think it would be a bit harsh for a unit to ask a SuT to take 7 weeks off work on what is frankly a complete pot luck gamble that they would actually get onto the EX?
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
I hate to ask this, whats a SuT?? Soldier under Training?
 
#15
SuT?

Can't we call them recruits?

msr
 
#18
as soon as they are in the system they become SUTs or even more correctly TASUTs, one army etc.....
when they walk into the office to ask they are recruits or potential recruits I forget the correct term.


The SCs will always be seen as a quick way for them to make cash to cover their next term at college/uni etc

The big mistake was to include the driving licence as a hook, 7 weeks all in with driving and a week adventure training, big cash pay out at the end of it....cheers easy.

two blocks of two weeks would work just as well, the first block being 1a&b a week break, not on army time, then two weeks 1c. it would save the admining unit having to cope with the 7 week stint the instructors need only stay for two weeks and teach one or other of the phases.


Units could then load SUTs onto either or both, depending on SUTs available time off, it would also not limit the SUTs available to just Students or unemployed.

Face it SC is a big " we got Xmany TA soldiers trained in Y time for £Z" the general end result is few
actual trained pax of any use to the unit.
 
#19
I'm confused.

We had a lot of people , 6 from my unit alone, who not only stayed, but are now on FTRS from MC.

So is the problem, not the Suts (FFS) Recruits , but the after-sales service back at units?

SC/MC/WC have a finite beginning and end time, it is up to receiving units to integrate the new bodies effectively into the ORBAT.

I don't see you can exclusively blame the Recruits , I can see the continuation activity PROWORD Retention needing to be looked at.
 
#20
Hmmmm, limited time to get all info across, no time for re tests, no time alloted for remedial training, which does, some times, happen back at units with the modular system. No time to assimilate the knowledge taught, as I've said before, no time to recover from minor ailments sprains etc which happens in the modular format with two weeks between each w/e, they get rushed from pillar to post, 'just do it' rather than explained to them.

No, not soley the SUTs fault, but the general attitude of the majority of them is that they're there for sh*ts and giggles for how ever long the various SC/MC/WC is.

You may have noticed I'm not a fan of SC, its not improved in the slightest since '06, IMOO of course.
 

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