Students more important than service personel

#1
I have just been provided with info regarding how the dept. of Health prioritises the supply of vaccines. Apparently the decision has been made to make students a priority over service personel.

This would explain the great difficulty a unit recently deployed overseas has had to fully vaccinate its troops. I have no real problem with students as such, but surely the risk from disease is far greater in downtown Basra compared to the student Uni!
 
#2
Soldiers - disposable nazi pigs
Students - right on, lefty hopes for the future

Surprised are you?

Have a look at who made the choice, I imagine it will tell you a lot. :roll:
 
#3
It's not so much that they think students are more important, but more the case that the Armed Forces were forgotten.

I am not sure which is the worse insult!

For the record, our (military) Lords and Masters are taking steps to correct the problem with the vaccines. They have already been on the backs of the DoH and explained the Operational impact the decision has had, amongst other risks. They are also are trying to obtain supplies by a different route.

As far as I know, there are only two vaccines that we are having problems with (not that even that is acceptable!) and they are the MMR and, I think, the triple-vaccine.

Once upon a time, not so many weeks ago, we had a warehouse that was able to hold vaccine stocks......remind me again why it was such a good decision to close it?

Jez

Ps The cynicism on this forum must be rubbing off on me...... :wink:
 
#4
in my oppinion i think everyone should be treated equally
and yes i am a student
 
#5
I reckon the students need them more. Have you seen some of their digs? Give me a stage 3 NBC trench any day (with some other fcuker digging it though). It is probably cleaner and contains less tetanus/typhoid/meningitis/galloping dog rot etc..
 
#6
Lawstudent - of course everyone should be treated fairly. But when the manufacturers can't make enough vaccines to go around, then someone has to make a decision on priority. It isn't rocket science!

Let me ask you a simple question......

Realistically, who is most likely to be exposed to diphtheria /tetanus/polio -
a) a student living in UK or
b) a soldier who could be sent to any of the insanitary troublespots in the world at the drop of a hat?

Now tell me why students should get priority over troops?

Jez
 
#7
If I could add my twopen'th, but this may be part of the cause:

Students have recently "prioritised" due to the vast increase in cases of Mumps within university populations. The kids of that age had only had one dose of MMR, and we suddenly discovered they were susceptable,because apparently it takes 2 to immunise completly for mumps, (well you live and learn!).

Because of the hastily arranged mass vaccination campaigns in Universities accross the country we are now also short of vaccine doses to keep up with the childhood program. We have had to import vaccine from the USA and also Germany to ensure correct supplys.

Ironically there is more demand for MMR from parents now than at any time since the media scare about the link with autism! :lol: :lol:
 
#8
lawstudent said:
in my oppinion i think everyone should be treated equally
and yes i am a student
in my opinion you are a dullard- and yannie.


Mumps spreads quickly around the Uni's.

A few weeks before the end of term we all had to be vaccinated following our quaratine, due to one individual getting mumps.

However yes, Service personnel should receive higher prioritisation of immunisations.
 
#9
Silvester said:
I have just been provided with info regarding how the dept. of Health prioritises the supply of vaccines. Apparently the decision has been made to make students a priority over service personel.

This would explain the great difficulty a unit recently deployed overseas has had to fully vaccinate its troops. I have no real problem with students as such, but surely the risk from disease is far greater in downtown Basra compared to the student Uni!
As has been suggested elsewhere in this thread students are more susceptible to some diseases than the rest of us. I would guess that MMR is the vaccine in question as there is a large percentage of them unprotected against mumps in the 17 - 21 age group i.e. students The thread would be more valid if you were talking about yellow fever etc, however I feel you should consider a job as a Sun reporter ![align=justify]
 
#10
Jezebel said:
Lawstudent - of course everyone should be treated fairly. But when the manufacturers can't make enough vaccines to go around, then someone has to make a decision on priority. It isn't rocket science!

Let me ask you a simple question......

Realistically, who is most likely to be exposed to diphtheria /tetanus/polio -
a) a student living in UK or
b) a soldier who could be sent to any of the insanitary troublespots in the world at the drop of a hat?

Now tell me why students should get priority over troops?

Jez

if i had to have the jab and a soldier was with me , i would let the soldier have it first.
but another thing to think of
with so many european and intentional students s coming in to the uk , our government should insisit on health checks first .
paid by there governments
 
#11
BRAINDRAIN said:
As has been suggested elsewhere in this thread students are more susceptible to some diseases than the rest of us. I would guess that MMR is the vaccine in question as there is a large percentage of them unprotected against mumps in the 17 - 21 age group i.e. students The thread would be more valid if you were talking about yellow fever etc, however I feel you should consider a job as a Sun reporter ![align=justify]
This thread is just as valid talking about MMR! The age group you describe also covers a good number of our young soldiers who are just as much at risk from mumps as students in the same age range. The same soldiers patrolling in Basra as I type. I wouldn't fancy managing an outbreak of mumps over there - with pre-fever temperatures of 50C , shared accommodation and limited medical facilities!

Where MMR is concerned then there needs to be parity between students and military. As it stands at the moment demands for vaccines for military personnel are likley to be refused whilst the jabs are given to university medical centres. As I tried to highlight earlier - this is more a case of the military being forgotten rather than a deliberate plot to alienate the Armed Forces!
 
#12
What university med centres?!! we'd be lucky if we saw a nurse who came in from the town to see us in halls... otherwise it's a nice long wait at a doctors surgery in town!
 
#13
Jezebel said:
BRAINDRAIN said:
As has been suggested elsewhere in this thread students are more susceptible to some diseases than the rest of us. I would guess that MMR is the vaccine in question as there is a large percentage of them unprotected against mumps in the 17 - 21 age group i.e. students The thread would be more valid if you were talking about yellow fever etc, however I feel you should consider a job as a Sun reporter ![align=justify]
This thread is just as valid talking about MMR! The age group you describe also covers a good number of our young soldiers who are just as much at risk from mumps as students in the same age range. The same soldiers patrolling in Basra as I type. I wouldn't fancy managing an outbreak of mumps over there - with pre-fever temperatures of 50C , shared accommodation and limited medical facilities!

Where MMR is concerned then there needs to be parity between students and military. As it stands at the moment demands for vaccines for military personnel are likley to be refused whilst the jabs are given to university medical centres. As I tried to highlight earlier - this is more a case of the military being forgotten rather than a deliberate plot to alienate the Armed Forces!
Jez, having recently completed my second tour on TELIC in a role that involves preventing and investigating disease I am fully aware of the risk to soldiers health through lack of immunisation. My reply was aimed at indicating that a blanket statement that soldiers are being overlooked for vaccination as students are given priority is incredibly niave. Have n't you as a medical person heard on MIAs as part of a pre-deployment package which details minimum standards of immunisation etc. By the way how many cases of M, M or R have there been on TELIC ? I'll let you know. :lol:
 
#14
LOL

Why do I suspect you are going to tell me that there have been no reported cases of M M or R on TELIC? :lol:

But there HAVE been cases of mumps within troops at home. Vaccinations have been carried out, as necessary, to those at risk of contracting disease in these 'hotspots'. But now, worst case scenario, it may not be possible to

a) vaccinate recruits - so increasing the risk of a pool of non-vaccinated individuals

b) vaccinate in areas where mumps has been identified (and not talking about just one off cases here), although I would like to think that there would be some made available if there was another outbreak.

And purleeeeese don't try and throw away quotes about MIAs...... I DO know what they are thank you very much! BTW - they dont tell you the minimum stds of vaccination - they only advise what risks there might be in any given place - actual decisions are based in the Mounting Orders or similar. But I digress.....

I am quite aware that (whatever form is used) directions for minimum vaccination stds are issued - but if the vaccines aren't there then we cant give them! Do we not send the troops or do we send them without vaccination cover?

I know, I know - I am being sensationalist - but at least it raises a debate and stops the boards from being full of inhouse one-liners :lol:

Jez
 
#15
Fordingly said:
What university med centres?!! we'd be lucky if we saw a nurse who came in from the town to see us in halls... otherwise it's a nice long wait at a doctors surgery in town!
Along with the great unwashed you mean!!
 
#16
boelynbulldog said:
Fordingly said:
What university med centres?!! we'd be lucky if we saw a nurse who came in from the town to see us in halls... otherwise it's a nice long wait at a doctors surgery in town!
Along with the great unwashed you mean!!
Huh!
In Portsmouth they sent us local nurses in amongst the great unwashed students! 8O :lol:
 
#17
Jezebel said:
LOL

Why do I suspect you are going to tell me that there have been no reported cases of M M or R on TELIC? :lol:

But there HAVE been cases of mumps within troops at home. Vaccinations have been carried out, as necessary, to those at risk of contracting disease in these 'hotspots'. But now, worst case scenario, it may not be possible to

a) vaccinate recruits - so increasing the risk of a pool of non-vaccinated individuals

b) vaccinate in areas where mumps has been identified (and not talking about just one off cases here), although I would like to think that there would be some made available if there was another outbreak.

And purleeeeese don't try and throw away quotes about MIAs...... I DO know what they are thank you very much! BTW - they dont tell you the minimum stds of vaccination - they only advise what risks there might be in any given place - actual decisions are based in the Mounting Orders or similar. But I digress.....

I am quite aware that (whatever form is used) directions for minimum vaccination stds are issued - but if the vaccines aren't there then we cant give them! Do we not send the troops or do we send them without vaccination cover?

I know, I know - I am being sensationalist - but at least it raises a debate and stops the boards from being full of inhouse one-liners :lol:

Jez
Jez, My question is this, have you had an incidence when soldiers have not been able to be vaccinated because there were none available i.e. due to greater demand by another cohort such as students ? I would guess the answer is no.

Ref MIAs, they form the basis for the medical element of a mounting instruction and indicate prevelant diseases in the AOO, thus allowing adequate protection in the form of vaccination and chemoprophylaxis.

I don't trivialise the potential effects of an illness such as mumps on a force, but I do find inaccurate and unsubstantiated statements annoying as they cause fear and misgivings where they are n't needed. :lol:
 
#18
BRAINDRAIN said:
My question is this, have you had an incidence when soldiers have not been able to be vaccinated because there were none available i.e. due to greater demand by another cohort such as students ? I would guess the answer is no.
You guess wrong. See PM.

But I do take your point about scaremongering so I shall do my best to outline the status quo on 28 Jun 05:

There is a national shortage of MMR and Revaxis vaccines. Due to this the Dept of health (DH) has had to set restrictions on who can order these and how many can be ordered in one go. It seems that the military were overlooked in the plan, unlike the students.

Those most likely to be affected (MMR) are the recruits as these fall into the same 'at risk' cateory as students. The Revaxis (Diptheria/Tetanus/Polio) vaccine is aso proving to be a problem to obtain and I am sure the potential risks are apparent.

Steps are being taken to ensure that Service Personnel are not exposed to risks associated with non-vaccination. This includes management of existing stocks and new orders for stocks. A number of organsiations (including DH, DMSD, ATRA, APHCS and DLO Med Supply IPT) are on the case and aim to resolve the problem asap.

I hope that this is a fair represenation of the state of affairs. It is based on information that I have had to deal with recently. To substantiate my claims more would compromise myself and my sources.

Jez
 
#19
An update.

It now appears that there are no licensed MMR jabs available in the UK, for reasons explained by others earlier. This situation is unlikely to change before the end of July.

The unlicensed American preparation that is available is not intended for use in children, only in adults. Being unlicensed, its use will be restricted to those who really need to be inoculated. This applies nationwide and not just restricted to MoD personnel.

Some military medical centres have had to cancel routine baby clinics as they are unable to obtain supplies. I understand this to be true of NHS clinics too. If anyone is aware of spare vaccinations being held in Army medical centres they may like to consider telling the Regional HQ as this could be of assistance to struggling medical centres.

Jez
 

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