Straw and prisons - no jail if overcrowded!

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
Jack Straw is 'looking at recommendations that prison sentences are more closely linked to spaces'.

Certain gobment oppointed advisors are recommending that the laws are changed to allow shorter or no prison sentences to be given if the jails are full.

They've 'buried bad news' in amongst bragging about three new super-prisons' that are to be built. They are basically saying that they 'intend' to build three new big prisons, but at the same time (and in the same story - thanks for bundling them together Beeb; Gobment mouthpiece) they will review sentencing 'guidelines' to see if they can reduce the overall sentencing regime for scumbags, drug dealers and other assorted crims. Basically, shorter sentences in jail, and no jail at all for some crims.

I always knew these uber-corrupt toe-rags were friendly towards terrorists, communists, republicans and their devious supporters, but they've added the general crim population to that mix too. Probably in the hope that they'll gain the ex-con vote (the only people that aren't about to lose their houses, or pay hugely increased taxes.

Clicky

"They will allow for a rational debate on sentencing which recognises that, as with any other public service, resources are finite.

"And, above all, they will fulfil our commitment to provide a modernised prison system that protects the public from the most serious offenders," said Mr Straw.

However, shadow justice minister Nick Herbert called Lord Carter's recommendations a "devastating indictment" of the government's failure to manage the prison system.
 
#2
FFS - just when you think these b@stards can't possibly get any worse, they somehow lower the bar. :x

Roll on the Coup! :twisted:
 
#3
In a nutshell. Sorry, we're full... so do what the feck you like. End of.
 
#4
Biped said:
I always knew these uber-corrupt toe-rags were friendly towards terrorists, communists, republicans and their devious supporters, but they've added the general crim population to that mix too. Probably in the hope that they'll gain the ex-con vote (the only people that aren't about to lose their houses, or pay hugely increased taxes.
Here, here, very well said.

Lib Dems are trying to push through for covicts to be able to vote, which if this gov is to go by is probably something that if whispered in their ears by their 'advisors' will give the nod to. Just wonder what Jack Straws home security is like. Without doubt he lives in an upper class exclusivly white neighbourhood. Appeasers like him should be forced to spend a few months living in Brixton and THEN be allowed to form policy. Their warped ideas on the world might change. A little.

Unfortunately another example of this government inflicting its gcse level-social experiment upon the decent law abiding populace. Oh how I wish for the day when one of these bastards gets a good shooing by some gutter thief who has just been released early on probabtion! Poetic justice, yet bagwells wishful thinking...
 
#5
Instead of letting those who have committed a lesser crime wander the streets to commit again, can't we just shoot the rapists, paedophiles etc and hey presto, we have room in the inn!

Edited due to lack of caffeine
 
#6
In such a technologically advanced society I cant see why prisoners cant just be made to 'disappear'. Gas chambers may only exsacerbate 'Global Warming', but for the loss of a few polar bears, 80,000 dead cons is a worthy trade off.
 
#7
Bagwell said:
In such a technologically advanced society I cant see why prisoners cant just be made to 'disappear'. Gas chambers may only exsacerbate 'Global Warming', but for the loss of a few polar bears, 80,000 dead cons is a worthy trade off.

There's always the worry that they'll turn up years later with their canoes.
 
#8
Not if we scupper them. In fact one great big sinking ship, a convicts titanic, would solve many of todays problems. And chained to the bridge; the govs current front bench.
 

elovabloke

ADC
Moderator
#9
Biped said:
Certain gobment oppointed advisors are recommending that the laws are changed to allow shorter or no prison sentences to be given if the jails are full.
Maths was never my strong point, and MP’s logic is a separate problem all of it’s own but if crime is down why are the prisons so fecking full. Not one political commentator seems to ask the obvious question.

If you would like to find out the answer please join me in asking the question. At least it will fill the day. Ministry of Justice questions HERE
 
#10
Perhaps if the sent all the illegal immigrants, that are taking up space, back to where they came from, there would be more room, and less of a burden on the tax payer.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#11
The logical conclusion of this approach is that, if there were for example only one Prison in the UK, when it was full every other convicted criminal would have to be given 'community punishment'.

I am interested in this after reading the front page story in my local paper yesterday - also made the BBC:

"A burglar who battered a mother of two to death in her own home while wearing an electronic tag has been jailed for a minimum of 18 years.
Lloyd Edwards, 19, had been convicted at Kingston Crown Court of murdering Laila Rezk, 51, who was found at her home in Kingston Vale in 2006.

Edwards was issued with a tag when he was released early from an 18-month Detention and Training Order.

Edwards, of south-west London, admitted manslaughter but had denied murder.

The teenager, who had a string of previous convictions, had been in trouble with police since the age of 10 and carried out a raid on another house just two weeks after leaving Mrs Rezk for dead.

It emerged following the trial that Edwards had been released two months early from a young offenders' institute where he was serving part of an 18-month detention and training order for a previous offence.

He was fitted with an electronic tag and on a curfew but after drinking all day on November 29 last year, he entered Mrs Rezk's home as she prepared a family dinner and launched a violent attack when she screamed.

She was left with severe brain damage and her injuries suggested she had been punched a number of times and her head smashed against a wall.

She was still breathing when daughter Dina, a PhD student at Girton College, Cambridge, who was then 22, and son Tamer, a medical student aged 20, walked in through the open doorway.

The court heard her daughter "could not recognise her mother's face" because of her injuries, which were so severe that paramedics thought a weapon must have been used.

She was taken to hospital but had fallen into a coma from which she never recovered.

A single thumbprint on a bent front door key on a bunch recovered from a lock at the home matched that of Edwards from Roehampton, south west London.

He later told police he pulled his sleeves over his hands when he went around the house.

He denied unlocking the door with the key but officers believe that in his agitation, his jumper slipped from his hands, leaving the print on the key.

The Judge, Mr Justice Calvert-Smith, said Mrs Rezk's screams resulted in Edwards losing his temper and launching a "ferocious attack".

He said: "She must have heard the noise of your entry and took exception to the presence of a stranger in her house.

"You could, of course, have left the house and gone elsewhere but you continued your assault long, long after you had disabled her.

"You must have seen the dreadful injury you had done to a woman that could have been your own mother.

"I accept that you didn't intend to kill Mrs Rezk and didn't intend when you went into the house to cause anyone really serious injury.

"But when Mrs Rezk resisted, you clearly lost your temper and formed the intention which resulted in you assaulting her so seriously she died.
"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7118934.stm

This is the reality of 'community punishment'. A murdering scumbag was tagged, but managed to drink all day and violently assault and kill an innocent mother. Oh, and as it's the BBC, it didn't mention the other assault which he commited on this poor woman as she lay dying.

I presume that, when he is sentenced for this crime, due weight will be given to the number of prison spaces available.
 
#12
Another reason to increase the defence budget. Just because there's a shortage of prison spaces doesn't mean there has to be a shortage of SAA.
 
#13
elovabloke said:
Biped said:
Certain gobment oppointed advisors are recommending that the laws are changed to allow shorter or no prison sentences to be given if the jails are full.
Maths was never my strong point, and MP’s logic is a separate problem all of it’s own but if crime is down why are the prisons so fecking full. Not one political commentator seems to ask the obvious question.

If you would like to find out the answer please join me in asking the question. At least it will fill the day. Ministry of Justice questions HERE
... you're obviously forgetting the die hard OAP crims who are jailed for withholding some of their Council Tax as they are not receiving the services paid for :roll:

... then there are those who don't pay their BBC Tax (sorry "licence fee").
 
#14
Issues are as follows, approx 14,000 foreign nationals in UK prisons, recalls to prison up to the tune of 70 a day......which includes breaches of CSOs and alike = reported crime down.........fact we have in the region of 200,000+ (it was 120,000 in 1996) of the population which are outside of the law and society and that is what prison is for. ( on the basis of 1/4 in prison at anyone time the rest either just getting out or going through the courts).
We have over the years tried various social experiments but to date none have worked......with one example; a referendum on costs ie: we vote for an expensive prison system or putting that money into mainstream education, the rational for this is the cost of £80,000 per prisoner per year which could be greatly reduced by taking away such things as prison education, gyms, social workers, vocational training etc and putting the money into mainstream education. Sadly this will not change the amount of people in prison as the majority see it is a life style choice but it will be money better spent.
Once we except that we have those who live outside the law we can build cheap, secure, low maintenance prisons that have basic regimes (which include limited dietary provision, no TVs, blankets, cold water and no gyms or prison education) from this point we can then look at expensive social experiments but only if the public want them.

Sadly if prisoners get the vote (and I believe they will, watch were the super prisons go ) you will see politicians pandering to prisoners every whim (2000 instant votes!)
 
#15
Bagwell said:
In such a technologically advanced society I cant see why prisoners cant just be made to 'disappear'. Gas chambers may only exsacerbate 'Global Warming', but for the loss of a few polar bears, 80,000 dead cons is a worthy trade off.
How about a bit of mine clearance in Iraq/Afghanistan.
 
#16
dante242 said:
Once we except that we have those who live outside the law we can build cheap, secure, low maintenance prisons that have basic regimes (which include limited dietary provision, no TVs, blankets, cold water and no gyms or prison education)
You will NEVER get the bleeding heart do gooders to accept the above and that is the REAL reason we have all these problems.
 
#17
But what we can do is ask our MPs to give us choices
 
#18
Bagwell said:
In such a technologically advanced society I cant see why prisoners cant just be made to 'disappear'. Gas chambers may only exsacerbate 'Global Warming', but for the loss of a few polar bears, 80,000 dead cons is a worthy trade off.
Think outside the box, old chap; just FEED the sex offenders, drug dealers etc to the Polar Bears!

Cheap, enviromentally friendly and bloody good fun! :twisted:
 
#19
Crime is NOT down - RECORDED crime is down. My missus works in a hospice which is, unfortunately, on a shortcut for the local chavs route to the pub. Her car has been vandalised 3 times. The last time it happened, at 2100, after her shift, I took the car down to the local nick to report it and show them the smashed window. Nick closed for the night at 2000 (although sound of laughing and jollity from inside). The following morning I rang the 0845 crime reporting number - it rang for 10 minutes then cut me off. By this time, I had rung the insurance and autoglass came round and sorted the window out (without requiring a crime number BTW). A few days later, my Mrs Mnairb was discussing vandalism with other members of hospice staff and found that a lot of the doctors and nurses had had their cars vandalised so she asked me to try and report the problem again. This time, went down in the afternoon, parked at Wickes (it's now double yellows outside the nick) and made sure I reported it. Copper was sympathetic but not much else.

BTW a few months ago, a toerag entered the hospice and stole a commemerative plaque from the chapel - nice people.
 
#20
mnairb said:
Crime is NOT down - RECORDED crime is down. My missus works in a hospice which is, unfortunately, on a shortcut for the local chavs route to the pub. Her car has been vandalised 3 times. The last time it happened, at 2100, after her shift, I took the car down to the local nick to report it and show them the smashed window. Nick closed for the night at 2000 (although sound of laughing and jollity from inside). The following morning I rang the 0845 crime reporting number - it rang for 10 minutes then cut me off. By this time, I had rung the insurance and autoglass came round and sorted the window out (without requiring a crime number BTW). A few days later, my Mrs Mnairb was discussing vandalism with other members of hospice staff and found that a lot of the doctors and nurses had had their cars vandalised so she asked me to try and report the problem again. This time, went down in the afternoon, parked at Wickes (it's now double yellows outside the nick) and made sure I reported it. Copper was sympathetic but not much else.

BTW a few months ago, a toerag entered the hospice and stole a commemerative plaque from the chapel - nice people.
Seconded; Scotland is one of the most violent country's on earth, according to official police statistics. Bad as they are, the real picture is much worse. A survey by the NHS of E&A Departments found that SIX TIMES as many people had been treated for injuries that could only have been caused by violent assualt as had been reported to the police. 8O

The vast majority of people treated for stab wounds, gun shot wounds etc, refused to inform the police, for various reasons; they wanted to handle it themselves. Or feared revenge attacks if they "grassed" on their attackers. Or simply had no faith in the ability of the police to protect them.

The politicians and senior police may say different, but violent crime is out of control in the UK. And I think it's going to get much, much worse before it gets better... :x :evil:
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top