Stop Press...Stop Press...Stop Press

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by PartTimePongo, Nov 5, 2002.

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    From the Torygraph..

    Keith Simpson, a Tory defence spokesman, spoke of the shortfall in manpower
    in all three forces and said the Army was its own worst enemy when it came
    to overstretch.
    He said: "They often say that they have shortages of manpower, that they
    haven't got the right equipment and then they go on and carry out Government
    policy, they deliver on it and I suspect that the Treasury then says, 'there
    you are, the armed forces were crying wolf because they delivered'."
  2. This army only copes in all situations because of it's inherent professionalism, dogged determination and ability to improvise, adapt and overcome.

    One day though, we'll have a situation where this simply won't happen because we're sick of having the p*ss taken out of us.  

    The straw that breaks the camel's back is only a white paper away.....

  3. It is no wonder that the Tories are in such a mess with idiots like Simpson on thier books.

    Anyone know his email address???

  4. From Conservative Website:

    Keith Simpson, a Conservative Whip and earlier a Defence spokesman, was elected in 1997 as one of the handful of Clarke supporters in that intake of Tory MPs, despite his own concealed doubts over the single currency.

    A burly moustachioed, jovial man in the manner of a Mace grocer, he was born in 1949 and educated at Thorpe Grammar School, Hull University and King's College London.

    He lectured at Sandhurst and Shrivenham and authored books on 'the Old Contemptibles' and the Waffen SS, with a look about him appropriately more of the former than of the latter.

    Photo and email on web page.

    It says he has been to Cranfield.....that explains why he is such an Ar*e
  5. And yet if the ministers themselves had to perform personally in the asme manner they expect of the armed forces, I think the funding and over-stretch issue would dissapear as the inherent understanding of making bridges out of firewood and the like strikes home.

    The problem is it takes a CGS with big brass cajhunas to stand up and say no when every sinew in his body says "give it a go and succeed".
  6. CGS

    CGS War Hero Moderator


    I think that you will find that the Rt Hon chap was only backing us up!

    We all know that when we need an Armd BG to stop a Coy of en Tks, we get given a piece of rope and two planks and that somehow, just somehow, we make it work.

    All he is doing is pointing out the fact that the treasury use this argument against us when it comes to percieved overfunding.

    Don't be so quick to jump on someone until you know the facts, certainly not a politician who authors military texts and has some knowlege of our system!

    And this c/s DOES have big brass cajhunas!
  7. Funnily enough, there are many of you who believe that we in the fire service don't do the same thing - perform professionally with limited resources under strain and in extremely stressful situations. Even the government have admitted as such following their recent review (The Pathfinder Trials) which proved that the service needed an increase of 100% in manpower, equipment and coverage.

    Sorry, did I come across something I shouldn't have? Are you being taken advantage of? Surely not!

    Keep safe

  8. Fcuk me!.....that didn't take long to get the subject around to the 'Firemans Strike' did it? .........Yeah, we know what your demands are, no we don't care, yeah we'll be doing your job with sub standard kit and even less in the way of training and no, we still don't care.  Now can't you just drop it for a's boring, honestly it really is.  

    Personally speaking, any early intentions which I harboured about supporting you have gone, as I'm sick to death of the lot of you.  If you want to go on strike, then do it.  Public opinion will turn against you as the death toll goes up over time (if indeed it happens) and you'll all soon be back in your wellies.    

    Moderators, I appreciate that this site allows for all to participate in 'relatively free speech'...but is this an Army website (albeit unofficial!) or another soap box for 'Trumpton'?

    Has anyone checked to see if they've hi-jacked the unofficial RAF sites (I understand that there are 2).
  9. Ma_sonic,

    You missed the point m8.

    We are all in the same boat because politicians -  Tory, Labour, LibDem whatever - really have no idea about what we do and how we do it. They all take advantage of our professionalism, skills and dedication (when I was in the RN - 9 years boy and man - it was exactly the same) without knowing the sacrifices we make and yet are always there to take the glory. It is about time they realised that without people like us - the forces, the public sector, the volunteers - what they will be left with are clouds in cuckoo land.

    If that is not to your liking then I must have misread the thread.

    BTW how can you have an opinion without both sides of the story?
  10. We've heard your side of the fact we've heard it so many times now that we practically know the script.  

    You try to make the point that 'we' are all the same and that 'we' have all been taken advantage of by the Government....what's with this 'we' sh*t? .....There's no 'we' in it.  You are a bunch of greedy b*stards, most of whom,  if you were put on 'performance related pay', would starve.  

    You claim that it's not danger money your after, but a professional wage for a professional job.........well take a look at the fat b*astards who mill around Peterlee Fire Station (Co Durham), who were told a few years back that they had to lose weight in order not to become a risk to themselves and the general public...........real professionals they were.  In fact some of them are still there and they're still fat b*stards.

    As for the dig at the Government,   Governments have been fcuking over their Armies for centuries mate.......we knew it when we joined the Army and it's been confirmed to us several times since then, but hey!...we're still here.  And guess's not for the money as we knew that was shit when we did you lot.

    On this occasion though, the only reason the Government has called upon us to do 'your' that you are 'threatening' to strike.  Somebody has to do it.  Lives depend upon it. So less of the 'we're all in it together brothers' crap.  We most certainly are not.  

    Like I said earlier, I thought that this was an Army site......not another soapbox for militant civvies to air their grievances.  I see some of your pals like to take the piss as well.  Keep it up'll make no freinds here
    with attitiudes like that.

    I wonder how many 'hoax' calls we'll get from striking firefighters?  We got lots the last time........that was really grown up.

    If you feel that your being taken advantage of in your current post then I suggest that you leave.   Lots of squaddies do it when they've had enough and fair do's to them.  The rest of us actually enjoy most of what we are called upon to do and money is not an issue.  If we want more, we work to get promoted.........or leave.  

    Keep safe? (stick it right up your arrse pal!)

    Ma, I'm going to leave this up for a bit, to get a reaction from the Fire Blokies. I appreciate you feel strongly on this, as do a lot of others on both sides. However, you have shown you are a skilled debater in the past, so try to remain dispassionate in your replies , keep the head , Ok?  PTP
  11. Didn't it use to be the case that most topics turned to sex??

    Always seems to get round to FBU strike action now.......or lack of it. ;D
  12. Wouldn't mind if this thread drifted back to a debate on "Can do more with less"....
  13. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    It never ceases to amaze me the naivity of servicemen across the board, (present company accepted!) We dont live in a military Utopia, (near Salisbury). How many times has the Army been let down by the Government?
    Lets see:
    1915: Gallipoli: Churchill
    1916: Poor quality artillery shells, LLoyd George
    1916: 38th Welsh Div annialation at Mametz: LG
    1939: WW2: N Chamberlain
    1940: Defeat in France, due to 1930's cutbacks: NC
    1942: Crete, Poor resup and leadership
    1942: Dieppe: Demand for new front, WC
    1944: Arnhem: End the war by Xmas: WC
    1950's: XMas Island Nuclear testing Guinea Pigs
                Suez Operation, request for a GSM
                Porton Down Guinea Pigs
    1960: End of National service
    1968: Brigade systems fails
    1970's: Northern Ireland fought with soldiers hands tied
                No reasonable pay increases
    1990's: DCS15: Cutbacks to Medical Services from which it will never recover.
                The well know SDR
                 Gulf War Syndrome recognition.
                 Failure to procure Bowman, new rifles, new AFV APC.
    etc, etc.            
    And thats just the top of my head, the Rudyard Kipling poem of 'Tommy Atkins' sums the Government of the day (Tory or Labour) , when the guns are firing we are great when they are not we're just a burden they would rather not have.
  14. Get off your high horse PTP.  I'm still asking why these individuals are being allowed to hi jack an Army site to flog their propaganda.  Never mind the free speech nuts either.  When you've been amongst them mate........then tell me where to get off. The profanities are uncommon I know, but I'm sick to death of these numpties, trying to convince us that their cause is just.  And yes I do speak from experience and I think that there are damn few of us left who are still serving.   And naievity has nothing to do with it either.  Take a look at some of their sites and see what they think of us.  And for the benefit of our 'freinds'.......three of you were convicted during the last strike..........for making hoax calls.  All in an attempt to prove that the MOD couldn't manage with the level of commitment.  

    I stand by everything I have said but apologise for the previous bad language.  I assure you that it is rare.
  15. Thanks Ma, that's all I asked.....

    Now get tore in.....  ;D