Stop Press...Stop Press...Stop Press

#1
[POLITICIAN IN "TALKING SENSE SHOCKER"

From the Torygraph..

Keith Simpson, a Tory defence spokesman, spoke of the shortfall in manpower
in all three forces and said the Army was its own worst enemy when it came
to overstretch.
He said: "They often say that they have shortages of manpower, that they
haven't got the right equipment and then they go on and carry out Government
policy, they deliver on it and I suspect that the Treasury then says, 'there
you are, the armed forces were crying wolf because they delivered'."
 
#2
This army only copes in all situations because of it's inherent professionalism, dogged determination and ability to improvise, adapt and overcome.

One day though, we'll have a situation where this simply won't happen because we're sick of having the p*ss taken out of us.  

The straw that breaks the camel's back is only a white paper away.....

 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#3
It is no wonder that the Tories are in such a mess with idiots like Simpson on thier books.

Anyone know his email address???

???
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#4
From Conservative Website:

Keith Simpson, a Conservative Whip and earlier a Defence spokesman, was elected in 1997 as one of the handful of Clarke supporters in that intake of Tory MPs, despite his own concealed doubts over the single currency.

A burly moustachioed, jovial man in the manner of a Mace grocer, he was born in 1949 and educated at Thorpe Grammar School, Hull University and King's College London.

He lectured at Sandhurst and Shrivenham and authored books on 'the Old Contemptibles' and the Waffen SS, with a look about him appropriately more of the former than of the latter.

http://www.conservatives.com/people/person.cfm?PersonID=4776

Photo and email on web page.

It says he has been to Cranfield.....that explains why he is such an Ar*e
 
#5
And yet if the ministers themselves had to perform personally in the asme manner they expect of the armed forces, I think the funding and over-stretch issue would dissapear as the inherent understanding of making bridges out of firewood and the like strikes home.

The problem is it takes a CGS with big brass cajhunas to stand up and say no when every sinew in his body says "give it a go and succeed".
 

CGS

War Hero
Moderator
#6
Gentlemen,

I think that you will find that the Rt Hon chap was only backing us up!

We all know that when we need an Armd BG to stop a Coy of en Tks, we get given a piece of rope and two planks and that somehow, just somehow, we make it work.

All he is doing is pointing out the fact that the treasury use this argument against us when it comes to percieved overfunding.

Don't be so quick to jump on someone until you know the facts, certainly not a politician who authors military texts and has some knowlege of our system!


And this c/s DOES have big brass cajhunas!
 
#7
Funnily enough, there are many of you who believe that we in the fire service don't do the same thing - perform professionally with limited resources under strain and in extremely stressful situations. Even the government have admitted as such following their recent review (The Pathfinder Trials) which proved that the service needed an increase of 100% in manpower, equipment and coverage.

Sorry, did I come across something I shouldn't have? Are you being taken advantage of? Surely not!

Keep safe

Blood
 
#8
Fcuk me!.....that didn't take long to get the subject around to the 'Firemans Strike' did it? .........Yeah, we know what your demands are, no we don't care, yeah we'll be doing your job with sub standard kit and even less in the way of training and no, we still don't care.  Now can't you just drop it for a while............it's boring, honestly it really is.  

Personally speaking, any early intentions which I harboured about supporting you have gone, as I'm sick to death of the lot of you.  If you want to go on strike, then do it.  Public opinion will turn against you as the death toll goes up over time (if indeed it happens) and you'll all soon be back in your wellies.    

Moderators, I appreciate that this site allows for all to participate in 'relatively free speech'...but is this an Army website (albeit unofficial!) or another soap box for 'Trumpton'?

Has anyone checked to see if they've hi-jacked the unofficial RAF sites (I understand that there are 2).
 
#9
Ma_sonic,

You missed the point m8.

We are all in the same boat because politicians -  Tory, Labour, LibDem whatever - really have no idea about what we do and how we do it. They all take advantage of our professionalism, skills and dedication (when I was in the RN - 9 years boy and man - it was exactly the same) without knowing the sacrifices we make and yet are always there to take the glory. It is about time they realised that without people like us - the forces, the public sector, the volunteers - what they will be left with are clouds in cuckoo land.

If that is not to your liking then I must have misread the thread.

BTW how can you have an opinion without both sides of the story?
 
#10
We've heard your side of the story.....in fact we've heard it so many times now that we practically know the script.  

You try to make the point that 'we' are all the same and that 'we' have all been taken advantage of by the Government....what's with this 'we' sh*t? .....There's no 'we' in it.  You are a bunch of greedy b*stards, most of whom,  if you were put on 'performance related pay', would starve.  

You claim that it's not danger money your after, but a professional wage for a professional job.........well take a look at the fat b*astards who mill around Peterlee Fire Station (Co Durham), who were told a few years back that they had to lose weight in order not to become a risk to themselves and the general public...........real professionals they were.  In fact some of them are still there and they're still fat b*stards.

As for the dig at the Government,   Governments have been fcuking over their Armies for centuries mate.......we knew it when we joined the Army and it's been confirmed to us several times since then, but hey!...we're still here.  And guess what...it's not for the money as we knew that was shit when we joined........as did you lot.

On this occasion though, the only reason the Government has called upon us to do 'your' work..........is that you are 'threatening' to strike.  Somebody has to do it.  Lives depend upon it. So less of the 'we're all in it together brothers' crap.  We most certainly are not.  

Like I said earlier, I thought that this was an Army site......not another soapbox for militant civvies to air their grievances.  I see some of your pals like to take the piss as well.  Keep it up lads..........you'll make no freinds here
with attitiudes like that.

I wonder how many 'hoax' calls we'll get from striking firefighters?  We got lots the last time........that was really grown up.

If you feel that your being taken advantage of in your current post then I suggest that you leave.   Lots of squaddies do it when they've had enough and fair do's to them.  The rest of us actually enjoy most of what we are called upon to do and money is not an issue.  If we want more, we work to get promoted.........or leave.  

Keep safe? (stick it right up your arrse pal!)

Ma, I'm going to leave this up for a bit, to get a reaction from the Fire Blokies. I appreciate you feel strongly on this, as do a lot of others on both sides. However, you have shown you are a skilled debater in the past, so try to remain dispassionate in your replies , keep the head , Ok?  PTP
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#11
Didn't it use to be the case that most topics turned to sex??

Always seems to get round to FBU strike action now.......or lack of it. ;D
 
#12
Wouldn't mind if this thread drifted back to a debate on "Can do more with less"....
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#13
It never ceases to amaze me the naivity of servicemen across the board, (present company accepted!) We dont live in a military Utopia, (near Salisbury). How many times has the Army been let down by the Government?
Lets see:
1915: Gallipoli: Churchill
1916: Poor quality artillery shells, LLoyd George
1916: 38th Welsh Div annialation at Mametz: LG
1939: WW2: N Chamberlain
1940: Defeat in France, due to 1930's cutbacks: NC
1942: Crete, Poor resup and leadership
1942: Dieppe: Demand for new front, WC
1944: Arnhem: End the war by Xmas: WC
1950's: XMas Island Nuclear testing Guinea Pigs
            Suez Operation, request for a GSM
            Porton Down Guinea Pigs
1960: End of National service
1968: Brigade systems fails
1970's: Northern Ireland fought with soldiers hands tied
            No reasonable pay increases
1990's: DCS15: Cutbacks to Medical Services from which it will never recover.
            The well know SDR
             Gulf War Syndrome recognition.
             Failure to procure Bowman, new rifles, new AFV APC.
etc, etc.            
And thats just the top of my head, the Rudyard Kipling poem of 'Tommy Atkins' sums the Government of the day (Tory or Labour) , when the guns are firing we are great when they are not we're just a burden they would rather not have.
 
#14
Get off your high horse PTP.  I'm still asking why these individuals are being allowed to hi jack an Army site to flog their propaganda.  Never mind the free speech nuts either.  When you've been amongst them mate........then tell me where to get off. The profanities are uncommon I know, but I'm sick to death of these numpties, trying to convince us that their cause is just.  And yes I do speak from experience and I think that there are damn few of us left who are still serving.   And naievity has nothing to do with it either.  Take a look at some of their sites and see what they think of us.  And for the benefit of our 'freinds'.......three of you were convicted during the last strike..........for making hoax calls.  All in an attempt to prove that the MOD couldn't manage with the level of commitment.  

I stand by everything I have said but apologise for the previous bad language.  I assure you that it is rare.
 
#15
Thanks Ma, that's all I asked.....

Now get tore in.....  ;D
 
#16
Ma-Sonic

I refer you to my previous post.  ???

As an ex-RN type I KNOW what it is like to be rolled over and shafted.

It is still the same in all the forces today - what you are going on about is no different to what has happened in previous years as many posters have indicated. The point I was making and I will make again is that they the politicians know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Until WE (the forces, public servants, volunteers) make them aware of that and that such a belief needs to change NOTHING will change. Or are you so pig-headed that support from the public (of which I am a member) will count for nothing when you want things to improve for your benefit? Without the likes of me pushing on your behalf do you think anything will change? Elsewhere in the public sector we can try to make a change for the better but sometimes that involves help from elsewhere - the public and other trade unions.

I'm just sorry that your one-sided viewpoint makes you unable to realise that I support your cause for better pay, conditions, equipment etc... so that you can do your job properly, as do the majority of my colleagues, many of whom are ex-army.

We wish you well. Keep safe, I've lost some good oppo's in war and in peace.

Blood
 

CGS

War Hero
Moderator
#17
Yes, as we were saying...

Whilst the Government may shaft us over and over, the real reason the Rt Hon Gentlemen said what he did was that we have a unique 'can-do' culture in the Army, whereby we will always strive to perform and win regardless of factors (Falklands Goose Green 1:3 against, etc etc).  This is only misunderstood as an over resourced organisation who can obviously do with less stuff.  You cannot have everything, and although you all may come from an x-generation culture of more-more-more (or at least are living in a modern culture where you CAN have what you want), we have better kit than we had 20 years ago, and more of it.  The true gaps are evident in the fallout from the SDR and Son Of SDR, where we have low numbers of CSS services to support us and a lack of strategic capability which makes our tactical ability considerably reduced.

This is not an excuse in the frame of 'You've never had it os good', far FAR from it, but the fact is that we ARE our own worst enemy.  If we were to prove the negative and (heaven forbid) fail in an Op, then we would have an instantly made arguemnt, but failure is something we just don't do...


And before any Sam gets his flame retardant welly in the door, this is NOT about us refusing to soldier!
 
#18
hello again CGS,

Just to say that your "can-do" culture is not unique within the service sector - it also applies to the RN, RAF(?) and the fire service. Which is why we in the fire service understand your frustration with the government, Parliament and the Rt Hon Members therein as well as those who control the purse strings for your branch.

I wish you well in your struggle to get what you deserve to do what you do professionally and competently.

Keep safe

Blood
 

CGS

War Hero
Moderator
#19
OH FOR FUCKS SAKES....

Blood!  Would you please give over with all this crap!

I wish you well in your struggle to get what you deserve to do what you do professionally and competently.
We are not in a struggle.  We are not demanding more pay.  We are not going on strike!

This thread is about the comments of a politician regarding the nature of a specific culture trait of our particular service and its impact upon the overall strategic provision allotted by the MoD/Government.

This CAN DO attitude IS NOT replicated in the other services in the same way.  I have served with the other services very closely in my last appointments and am currently responsible for personnel from the three other services (yes, that includes the civil service).  they are not the same and whilst the goal is the same, quite often the means and the will differs according to situations faced by each service.

The requirement to project MANPOWER in to hold ground and to close with and KILL the enemy with NO resources lies with the ARMY.  The RAF don't do that, they have highly valuable tools, ie aircraft, without which they cannot function.  The Navy have ocean going platforms without which they cannot complete their missions.  WE have a vast array of very technologically advanced weaponry and tools without which...  we STILL close with and kill the enemy (and I'm not going to preach military history to you, as I'm sure you have a library nearby).

Our can-do culture trancends the inability to operate without resources and relies upon the need for every soldier to be sacraficed in order to complete the mission, should that situation exist.  This is the underlying tennet that makes our culture unique.

Your can-do culture is a won't-do-without-more-dosh culture.  Now stop trying to make every thread a marxist-trotskyist 'we're all the same brothers' argument and enjoy some of the banter.
 
#20
Marxist-trotskyist - I've never been called that before. 10 out of 10 for your originality.

As to the thread, my understanding is that this chinless wonder (a politician) spouted off about the army from his lofty unknowing position and some of your colleagues commented on this. They are of the opinion that he appears to know nothing about the service, as is the case with many of the politicians, and in my defence I can claim that most politicians know nothing about what we do in the fire service. Hence our collective coming together on this issue.

I will also say that in various threads on this site your colleagues have grumbled extensively about their "lot".  If that is so then I hope that their "lot" improves sooner rather than later and may I be the first to wish you well in this. They may not want their "lot" to improve but then again I would gladly pay higher taxes to fund the services correctly.

BTW I enjoy humour just as much as the next person.  Given my current circumstances I hope that you will forgive me if my sense of humour is slightly jaded.

Keep safe

Blood
 

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