Stop and search

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by stoatman, May 26, 2008.

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  1. Hypothetically, how far can one go as a white Anglo-Saxon type if one is stopped and searched by the paramilitary wing of the Guardian and still play within the rules? I had a look at the stop and search website, and there seemed to be a few loopholes. I wonder if a few of her Majesty's finest could assist in this.

    Yes, I know that the police are just doing their jobs, but as I see it random stop and search, particularly under section 44 of the terrorism act are just so profoundly not cricket that they have to be resisted at every turn. So, to break it down:

    During the stop and search itself, can I:

    If it is a section 44, ask who declared it?
    If it is a normal stop and search, ask what grounds there were for suspicion?
    Claim that I'm being discriminated against on the basis of being white to maintain quotas?
    Ask for an interpreter because I'm more comfortable speaking Dutch?
    if while driving my Dutch registered car, claim that the stop was based on prejudice that Dutch people are all involved in drugs?

    Afterwards, when filing a complaint, how far can it be pushed?

    What else can you do to be a pain in the hoop?

    I know this is terribly immature, but I know that the chances of being stopped and searched are so small that it is entirely hypothetical, and if push came to shove I'm not sure I would have the spherical objects to do anything but cooperate in any case...
  2. I think things like this are, hypothetically, always worth knowing.
  3. I have never been the VICTIM of a stop and search, but i am sure that if the police'person' is not very careful, I will have a major sense of humour failure.

    I would very much like to know the legal situation. I was going to say "I would like to know my rights" but do we really have any of those anymore?

  4. i believe that s.44 has to be declared in effect by someone of about Assistant Commissioner level (Assis Chief Constable for those in the rural.

    You are entitled to make a complaint about all the rest. The depth to which it is investigated will depend upon how seriously it is viewed and if it is a malicious complaint.

    A few years ago, whilst still serving, I was reminded by 'those above' that white people should be stopped as well as Asians as the IRA was still out there - big roll of eyes from the assembled officers - and terrorism was not just the province of the currently active Muslim extremists.

    On the face on it, as you looked like a non - British white person, your stop was to 'even things out'.
  5. Must be about 15 years ago now, but in my abseiling days, I was stopped and searched while walking down Bishopsgate in London (a year or so after the IRA bomb there).

    The copper said, "May I have a look in your bag?"

    I struggled to hide an evil grin as I said, "Not at all, provided that you put everything back as you found it."

    Now, the bag in question was a Yank kitbag. Fitted with shoulder straps, it had about three times the capacity of the Brit kitbag. At the top was my helmet and harness. In the middle was 200m of rope. At the bottom were various accoutrements. There was an art to getting all this kit in.

    Anyway, the Copper agreed and proceeded to empty the bag. At about the 100m point of removing the rope, I could see that he'd realised that he'd bitten off more than he could chew. (Proper abseilers don't hank the rope - it gets stuffed in the bag so that it comes out without knots). At 100m, he was starting to sweat, but not nearly as much as when, at 200m, he saw how much rope he'd taken out and how little space he had to put it back in.

    When he'd emptied the bag and was satisfied, I said "You'd better put it back, then." and nonchalantly leaned against the wall and whistled a merry tune.

    After 15 minutes of watching him struggle (he was on his third attempt), I relented and said, "Watch!" and put everything back in a couple of minutes, freely dispensing the kicks and punches necessary to get the rope firmly packed into the bag.

    "There. Now you know how to do it next time."

    "There's not going to be a fcuking next time!" he said over his shoulder as he plodded away.
  6. Yeah, grow up! :roll:

    As for the Guardian it's soft, strong and thoroughly absorbant. Not much use for anything else.

    Fight the power!
  7. *Home secretary approved the sec 44 - it was authorised on **** date (28 days maximum before renewal or recinding)

    *Sec 44 so no specific grounds required - you're in an area covered by the powers

    *"I'm sorry you feel you're being disciminated against, what grounds do you have for that?"

    *"Listen to what I'm saying (gradually increase volume) I'm going to search you and your car"

    *"If you go to any police station, or via the internet or the IPCC you can make a complaint - you will have a copy of the form that I am filling in now so you can identify me/ the time/date/location/extent of search/ your self defined ethnicity/ clothing/ hair etc."

    "Please crack on with your obstructive behaviour, I'm getting paid to be here. I wil only let it go on so long before using powers available to me to facilitate this search" (unless of course during the course of our interaction I belive there is no further neccessity to continue)

    I have no objection to being videoed, audio recorded, photographed, etc. I will not be sworn at, will protect myself from any perceived threat you may offer and am not scared or put off by the "threat" of a complaint. I will be polite and courteous throughout.

    n.b. don't believe all the crap that is written in the Guardian and Mail. Last week I carried out a search on a Lt Col who left entirely happy and told me his search form would be the talk of the mess that evening.
    Last night I was involved in a search where a 17 year old had a 15 inch samurai sword down the back of his coat. According to him I am a racist pig b*stard and he hopes my family die of cancer... can't please everyone :(
  8. When I got turned over by Plod, I found the best fun could be had by acting nervous when he wanted to look in my pack, then agreeing but stepping back a couple of paces and wincing a bit when he got about half-way down. It was lovely to see his desire to leg it or call the bomb squad just in case, fighting with his desire not to look a numpty if there was nothing there.
  9. The majority of people caught with knifes/swords etc get nothing more than a caution for their trouble, thats why they still carry knives down town on a saturday night.

    Its not the maximum sentence you have to look at, its the minimum - even that can be got around if its not reported to CPS.
  10. Sorry mate I took that away. I try only to say nice things these days and didnt want to sound anti-police. They've just brought in a blanket ban on straight (samurai type) swords. Despite the fact that as you allude to, knives are the only ones that are commonly used to commit offences.
  11. Bunch of t wat replies in my opinion. I have no problemss whatsoever being stopped and searched by plod. They are doing their job, just as we do/have done on VCP's. How did you deal with smart arses? Mine never left with a smile or smirk on their stupid inane faces.
  12. Reasonably interesting Wiki.

    PCSO's now too. :roll:
  13. No problems being searched, I work some odd hours so I can be found walking home at all hours. Happy that they are looking out for Burgalers. Have been searched a few times at 03:00/04:00 wandering home with a large bag.

    It was actually funny once as I had all my Archery gear with me as I had been shooting before work. Stopped by a Young Bobby while his mate watched from the car,
    "Whats in the case Mate?" says he.

    "Have a look, Here's the padlock keys" Says I.

    Opens case, sees the bow, sees the arrrows", 2 quick steps back hand straight to CS. Screams (very camp) to me "Get down now" and to his Mate "Geoff he's armed".

    I stand there looking at him like he's just grown a second head as his oppo runs over takes a quick shufti in the case see the bow very well strapped down and turn to the 1st Bobby and states "********, put that away". Turns to me asks why I've got the bow with me, I explain show him my club/NFAS membership.
    He closes the case and gives it the sorry to bother you speil, I give him my details, quick PNC check and I'm off on my way.

    25 minutes later at home, knock at the door and theres the younger excitable Bobby with the 2 Padlocks and keys. Not seen many Bobbies blush.
  14. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    I have had fun with searches, I used to carry a lot of ammo around travelling up and down the country and regularly would have several pistols and rifles plus ammo in the car, I was only stopped once and asked if I minded plod looking in the bag, I replied as long as he didnt mind reading my FAC first so he wouldnt look silly having to get me transport away from the area having pulled out a pistol etc.
    I once attended a welding course at tech with one cased on my desk so I could see it rather than leave it in my car. Mostly sensible people here, but then we still have a public range less than a mile away!
  15. Ha Ha, yeah thats hilarious that is... :roll:
    Wonder how funny you would find it if you acted like that and the cop happened to be armed, don't think you would be laughing as he points his Glock/Mp5 at your noggin and tells you to freeze....
    FFS would you do the same at a VCP to get into camp? No I dont think so fr1ggin knob, its bad enough out there dealing with scum without c0cks like you kn0bbing around..... :roll: :roll: