Stealthy JSF?

#1
I heard somewhere that JSF is meant to be "stealthy".

Now does anyone know if its going to be proper stealthy a la F117/B2, as in "na-na-na-na-na-na you cant see me" stealthy - because it doesn't look like it has the crazy lines of the Spirit/Nighthawk and surely the Spams would have hushed it up, put it at Area 51 and painted it black by now!

Or will it be more like a-bit-reduced-radar-cross-section a la B1 Lancer and Eurofighter. As thats a bit more believable really isn't it. I couldnt really see the RAF having stealthy STOVL attack aircraft to replace Harrier for CAS, but having their Typhoon fighter-bombers and interceptors still getting painted by radars like crazy... Shame, 2 aircraft carriers full of stealth fighters would've really fcuked up whoever we wanted - if we get CVF!

Oh yeh and anyone know if F22 is proper stealthy or just-a-bit-lower-observable too, as if it really is going to be as good as invisible then why the hell are we buying Typhoon?!

Regards
Gook
 
#2
The JSF is stealthy-ish



And not totally unlike the raptor in looks



only the JSF can do this



Its stealthy enough to sneak up behind you and take a bite out of your curly wurly when you aren't looking
 
#3
It's supposed to be quite staelthy, basically an adaption of the F-22, built by the same people. We're buying Typhoon because we've been running with it for 15-20 years already, it's partly British built, the F-22 is running behind the Typhoon for production (heard the US were considering a number of Typhoons as a stop gap) and the F-22 is about 2-3 times the cost per aircraft.
 
#5
Does the non-STOVL version have swing-wings like the Tornado then? And are we getting any, or are we just buying the jump jet version?
 
#6
Gook said:
Does the non-STOVL version have swing-wings like the Tornado then? And are we getting any, or are we just buying the jump jet version?
Three variants.

X-35A

This is the CTOL (Conventional Launch & Landing) that the RAF and USAF will be buying, intended for places where there are long runways and no need for STOVL or aircraft-style tailhocks.

X-35B

This is the STOVL (Vertical Launch & Landing) variant that the RN and the USMC will be buying.

X-35C

Basic variant is is designed for the US Navy which has a tailhock-style system for landing, can be operated on a catapult-style system for take off and has fold-able wings for close-quaters on aircraft decks.
 
#8
Gook said:
Erm so the RAF aren't going to get the STOVL one? So how will it replace Harrier?
The RAF and RN are going to share the 150 STOVL JSF as part of Joint Force Harrier, or whatever it gets renamed once the F35 has a decent name.

The US F35s are going to be fully Stealthy, but the export "International" versions are probably going to be a lot less so.
 
#12
307 said:
Rapier can ping F-117s so....
F117-s are so-called first generation stealth. B2s are second generation, as they are just as if not more stealthy than the Nighthawk, but withouth the weird wedge shape. So I guess the next generation of fighters are probably going to be almost as stealthy without the need to go all angly again. Or so I read somewhere...
 
#13
Ah so now its all STOVL. Shame, the RAF could do with a STOVL one as a Harrier replacement, and the RN could do with a regular version, since CVF will be capable of taking cats and arrester cables etc.

Don't they do a swing-wing one, as the naval version is going to have to be a full-on fighter for air-to-air, as well as a bomb-dropper for CAS?


Edited: I think STOVLs a good idea for a the RAF to have in attack aircraft like the Harrier and the replacement F35s. They've got a Harrier det over in Afghanistan, they only need a relatively small space to defend instead of a massive runway too. If you fought a conventional war you could keep on moving them up easily behind the FEBA and hiding them in woods or industrial estates or whatever and you've not got to build a runway all the time. The USMC like the idea so much they use Harriers rather than A10s.

And can F117s or B2s or other stealthy aircraft really get painted that easily? What really happened at that airshow with the Rapier, and what happened that time one got downed in Serbia??!
 
#16
SierraBravo said:
Gook said:
Does the non-STOVL version have swing-wings like the Tornado then? And are we getting any, or are we just buying the jump jet version?
Three variants.

X-35A

This is the CTOL (Conventional Launch & Landing) that the RAF and USAF will be buying, intended for places where there are long runways and no need for STOVL or aircraft-style tailhocks.

X-35B

This is the STOVL (Vertical Launch & Landing) variant that the RN and the USMC will be buying.

X-35C

Basic variant is is designed for the US Navy which has a tailhock-style system for landing, can be operated on a catapult-style system for take off and has fold-able wings for close-quaters on aircraft decks.
I think you will find the RAF and RN are going for a single type.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=15145&rsbci=13151&fti=0&ti=0&sc=400

The F-35A for the U.S. Air Force matches or exceeds F-16 performance levels and goes several steps beyond with stealth, increased range on internal fuel, and advanced avionics. Operational effectiveness, supportability, and survivability are greatly enhanced as a result

The F-35B for the U.S. Marine Corps and the U.K. Royal Air Force and Royal Navy employs a short-takeoff/vertical-landing (STOVL) capability. This takeoff and landing operation succeeds through a very innovative technology known as the shaft-driven lift fan propulsion system.

Besides the propulsion system, the STOVL variant differs only slightly from the U.S. Air Force variant.

U.S. Navy carrier operations account for most of the differences between the F-35C and the other JSF variants. The aircraft has larger wing and tail control surfaces to better manage low-speed carrier approaches.
You may have also noticed on Lockheed-Martins web site http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fnec&ti=100
that they do not call it the X-35 any more, since the "X" (eXperimental) and "Y" is for prototype aircraft indicate at what stage it was in during development so you would have had Z - Planning, X - Experimental, Y - Prototype, N - Special Test, Permanent, J - Special Test, Temporary G - Permanently Grounded.

Projects
X-31 = Enhanced Fighter Maneuverability
X-32 = Boeing Company JSF aircraft lost out to X-35 (F-35)
X-33 was a technology demonstrator for NASA's "next-generation" of space launch vehicle named Venture Star.
X-34 was intended as a low-cost testbed to demonstrate "key technologies" integratable to the Reusable Launch Vehicle.
X-35 = Lockheed-Martin JSF winner now the F-35.
X-36 = Tailless fighter agility research aircraft.
X-37 = demonstration spaceplane that is intended to test future launch technologies but may have already been cancelled.
X-38 = program has been cancelled.

Prototype worth noting that X list has no relation to YF list
YF-15 = F-15A Eagle.
YF-16 = F-16A Fighting Falcon.
YF-17 = proposed development aircraft for the F-18.
YF-18 = F-18 Hornet.
YF-19 (not known about but someone out there will). 8) see maguire comments below
YF-20 = F-20 Tigershark, an advanced version of the F-5
YF-21 (not known about but someone out there will). 8) see maguire comments below
YF-22 = F-22 Raptor (ATF) replacement for the F-15.
YF-23 = Black Widow II (ATF) Cancelled lost out to Raptor known during the test period as "Lightning II"

But it would appear they have by passed the YF stage and gone to the standard pre-fix since there is no other aircraft to fill this role.
 

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
the F-20 was the Tigershark, the single engined F-5 variant Northrop developed in the 80s. despite being said to be significantly better than the F-16 in some areas (price, and able to launch aim-7 and amraam missiles iirc- which at the time the F-16 was unable to do ), and rated by no less than Chuck Yeager as being one of the best aircraft he'd ever flown, was stymied by politics and never went into production.
the F-21 was the designation given by the US Navy to the IAI Kfirs they acquired for Aggressor training at Miramar.
the F-19 was rumored to be the Stealth fighter's number for a period before the USAF went public with the F-117. it's been rumored that F-19 is the name given to captured opfor equipment tested by the US, but as far as I know nothing has ever been made official. although I stand to be corrected.
 
#18
Raptor has a radar signature about the size of a golf-ball....looks like a sparrow (the bird variety and not the missile!) to a good radar scopey.
There's a few weapon systems out there that just will not see F22 coming!
 
#19
307 said:
Rapier can ping F-117s so....
Think you might find that the F-117 has the ability to turn on and off its stealth technology. I imagine it trucks around at airshows etc without its systems on, and thus companies and military demonstrators at shows think they can Ping it. But in reality during conflict they dont stand a hope in hell.
 
#20
Red,
Incorrect. F-117 has deployable radar reflector 'antenna' to make it more visible to ATC/SSR radars, perfect for when its transitting the busy Denver/Vegas/Reno east-west air corridor over Nevada. Can also be equipped with other reflectors dependent on who needs to see it.
Next they'll be saying the B-2 is nuclear powered.....with anti-gravity drive...
 

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