State of UK Policing: another Home Office triumph

Is there any single action, or range of actions, that Government could take to reverse the downward trend?

A recruitment drive?
Improve terms and conditions?
Strengthen the court system?
Better welfare support?

Recruting drive and T&C's would require a direct admission from Mrs May she was wrong.

So really, no.

I was chatting virtually with a mate of mine who is still in a week or so ago, and asked him what morale was like.

His was his messaged reply

ghCzIyf_d.jpg
 
I notice that far more people are talking about what is usually desribed as "taking the law into their own hands" and they are not the usual suspects either.

Is it taking the law into your own hands, or doing the work of the long gone police force?
 
Honestly I'd start by upping investment in social services, youth services, prisons & justice services, and mental health provision first. If they were better staffed and resourced (and I mean more workers and in some cases of considerably better quality too) I think you would see demand for Police being used as a service of last resort by other services dropping dramatically.

I would re-invest in back office and admin staff but I would also see about unifying procurement and systems services. Long term investment for long term efficiencies.

And then yes, I would look to get more cops.

Trouble is that all the above mentioned services are in crisis but the most visible result is the upsurge in crime.
 
I notice that far more people are talking about what is usually desribed as "taking the law into their own hands" and they are not the usual suspects either.

Is it taking the law into your own hands, or doing the work of the long gone police force?

If the police are incapable of protecting you, it's called doing what needs to be done.
 
Theresa May presided over this disastrous state of affairs as Home Secretary for 6 years.
Yet the number of people who put the blame for the woes of the Met on Khan never ceases to amaze me.
Then again, when I point out that TM cut 21000 Police jobs and £400m from their budgets, they do go quiet.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Yet the number of people who put the blame for the woes of the Met on Khan never ceases to amaze me.
Then again, when I point out that TM cut 21000 Police jobs and £400m from their budgets, they do go quiet.
Well Sussex seems to be racing into the recruitment stakes. 80 posts filled as soon as the advertisers ink was dry. T's and C's must be shittier elsewhere!
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
Is there any single action, or range of actions, that Government could take to reverse the downward trend?

A recruitment drive?
Improve terms and conditions?
Strengthen the court system?
Better welfare support?
Maybe a tad out there, but just shoot criminals on the spot, that way there won't be so many to try and catch.
 
Well Sussex seems to be racing into the recruitment stakes. 80 posts filled as soon as the advertisers ink was dry. T's and C's must be shittier elsewhere!

I once made the point that there were always enough applicants to carry a gun in the police. Didn't mean they were always employed.

There will always be enough applicants to be a police officer, doesn't mean the applicants should be given the job.

For example in some parts of the country, the pay of a police officer and perceived job security make it an excellent job for a person with no other options. When you have options, experience or qualification why would you pick the police?

I've mentioned again and again, the problem of retention of skilled police officers. Many of my friends left for jobs in the private sector, taking experience and skills with them. None of them were motivated by the increase in pay, they all said it was a factor. Stupid management was the reason mentioned by every single one.

So, whilst you can get them in; can you keep them?

A doctor who failed to notice that the transfused blood was being lost almost as quickly as it was going in, might think to plug the exit wounds.

However, in the analogy of Corpus Polizei Britanicus - you can't address the reason why people are leaving because that is rather unplatable politically. Which actually increases the problem; as you are spending money on recruiting, training and retention much more regularly than you ever were in the past.

If an officer signed on for 30 years, you spend less than a cycle every 8-12 years (one figure I heard quoted for the average "new constable" career) to do it three times over.

But what would I know. I am sure our leaders have it covered. The Home Office will tell you it's all fine, the Home Secretary has got it, and the PM will tell you that Police and Crime Commissioners have said they have the funds they need.

giphy.gif

(Actual footage of the Home Office, 2 Marsham Street)
 

DaManBugs

On ROPS
On ROPs
Book Reviewer
Honestly I'd start by upping investment in social services, youth services, prisons & justice services, and mental health provision first. If they were better staffed and resourced (and I mean more workers and in some cases of considerably better quality too) I think you would see demand for Police being used as a service of last resort by other services dropping dramatically.

I would re-invest in back office and admin staff but I would also see about unifying procurement and systems services. Long term investment for long term efficiencies.

And then yes, I would look to get more cops.

Trouble is that all the above mentioned services are in crisis but the most visible result is the upsurge in crime.
That actually sounds like a good plan. In my opinion, though, it could go further. What's happened to the UK Old Bill (and the fire-fighting service too) is a typical cost-saving exercise that took no account of the impact it would have on society. The politicians only look at figures on a spreadsheet or in a report and then make their (invariably wrong) decisions.

Part of the reason for that is (a) their customary indifference to and general disinterest in the "woes of the masses" and (b) the fact that they're not affected one way or the other: while "normal folks" are getting burgled/attacked/chivved on a regular basis, there are always enough Old Bill to protect the politicians - which turns the whole issue into an abstract academic point for them.

The strategy was explained to me by a firefighter a couple of years ago. The politicians see fire-stations A, B and C. They then decide that the former and the latter are "enough" for the area and shut down station B. What they don't understand is that when stations A and C are out on major shouts, station B, as a back-up, can go in either direction should any more incidents occur or as additional assistance.

Some very clever folks have calculated that there could be immediate savings of around £300 million by reducing the number of Old Bill forces in the UK to about six. At the moment I think they have something like 45 or so. They could also sequester space in some of the big supermarkets at a pepper-corn rent to install stations there. That would have the effect of folks seeing actual Old Bill in the flesh - I'm sure some of the younger generation believe that the Old Bill are a myth made up to scare them, like Hairy Charlie getting them if they don't go to bed. And then, of course, most important of all, bite the bullet and employ more Old Bill.

MsG
 
The strategy was explained to me by a firefighter a couple of years ago. The politicians see fire-stations A, B and C. They then decide that the former and the latter are "enough" for the area and shut down station B. What they don't understand is that when stations A and C are out on major shouts, station B, as a back-up, can go in either direction should any more incidents occur or as additional assistance.

Or reducing the crewing at stations B and C, drastically reducing coverage but insisting that the stations aren't technically closed. Then disciplining Service staff who take to social media to point this out to the public.

Not that that would ever happen.
 
I notice that far more people are talking about what is usually desribed as "taking the law into their own hands" and they are not the usual suspects either.

Is it taking the law into your own hands, or doing the work of the long gone police force?

If they go out and lawfully investigate an offence and bring it to a prosecution, then it’s doing the police’s job.
Even with the recent report, police cells are still full, Courts have massive backlogs and prisons are at 99% capacity. So the police are still policing.
 

AT55

LE
I know little about the police and less about the NHS but it appears that both are run by managers as opposed to leaders and both sets of managers think that their problems can be solved by large injections of money.
 
If the police are incapable of protecting you, it's called doing what needs to be done.

So why do we still get millions of whiny calls a year asking for us to help people and a reluctance by anyone to help themselves after they have made that call?
Asking for a statement from someone can be like asking to pull teeth. In my experience, most members of the population don’t have the capacity or the balls to do much for themselves.
 
Well Sussex seems to be racing into the recruitment stakes. 80 posts filled as soon as the advertisers ink was dry. T's and C's must be shittier elsewhere!

A reasonably rich county, I will hazard a guess that the majority will be internal candidates so robbing Peter to pay Paul.

The PCC can claim to have recruited 80 cops but not mention The PCSOs/PSI/DO that have been lost.

Sussex does not have the same issues as other counties either and would be a relatively sort after place to live and work.
 
So why do we still get millions of whiny calls a year asking for us to help people and a reluctance by anyone to help themselves after they have made that call?
Asking for a statement from someone can be like asking to pull teeth. In my experience, most members of the population don’t have the capacity or the balls to do much for themselves.

I neither know nor care. But it's illuminating that you refer to the public asking the police for help as 'whining'.
 
I once made the point that there were always enough applicants to carry a gun in the police. Didn't mean they were always employed.

There will always be enough applicants to be a police officer, doesn't mean the applicants should be given the job.

For example in some parts of the country, the pay of a police officer and perceived job security make it an excellent job for a person with no other options. When you have options, experience or qualification why would you pick the police?

I've mentioned again and again, the problem of retention of skilled police officers. Many of my friends left for jobs in the private sector, taking experience and skills with them. None of them were motivated by the increase in pay, they all said it was a factor. Stupid management was the reason mentioned by every single one.

So, whilst you can get them in; can you keep them?

A doctor who failed to notice that the transfused blood was being lost almost as quickly as it was going in, might think to plug the exit wounds.

However, in the analogy of Corpus Polizei Britanicus - you can't address the reason why people are leaving because that is rather unplatable politically. Which actually increases the problem; as you are spending money on recruiting, training and retention much more regularly than you ever were in the past.

If an officer signed on for 30 years, you spend less than a cycle every 8-12 years (one figure I heard quoted for the average "new constable" career) to do it three times over.

But what would I know. I am sure our leaders have it covered. The Home Office will tell you it's all fine, the Home Secretary has got it, and the PM will tell you that Police and Crime Commissioners have said they have the funds they need.

giphy.gif

(Actual footage of the Home Office, 2 Marsham Street)

Would love to give you 20 likes. Spot on.
 
I know little about the police and less about the NHS but it appears that both are run by managers as opposed to leaders and both sets of managers think that their problems can be solved by large injections of money.

As do senior soldiers who insist on multiple billions in equipment procurement.

Policing hasn’t seen a large injection of cash for a decade or so. We are through the fat and muscle and close to the bone.
 
I neither know nor care. But it's illuminating that you refer to the public asking the police for help as 'whining'.

There are real emergencies, and then there are time wasters.

Not all calls to public services are deserving.
 
I neither know nor care. But it's illuminating that you refer to the public asking the police for help as 'whining'.

When you read the full paragraph, you will see that I qualified it with those that then refuse to contribute to the process. Making the process unworkable.

Equally if you google 999 calls, I’m quite happy to say that some of them are totally unnecessary and amount to whining.
 
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