Start of the decline of mass car manufacturing in the UK? Again.

#41
.....Honda did try hydrogen fuel cells with a research project based in Swindon so an interesting change to focus on EV.
A pity no one is looking for a start up building Hydrogen fueled cars. All those redundant production lines, a trained workforce in place and a government which should be falling over itself to shower money and encouragement.
 
#42
Self & SWMBO have both previously owned Hondas.

When it came time to chage my FRV, the Honda dealer took the p!ss and also I positively hated the interior of the previous model Civic, and still hate the latest one, as it's made for people with short legs who like living in a coal hole and like Amstrad 1980s stereos.

SWMBO ditched her Jazz partly because of the very limited range of engines 1.3 petrol or ..... 1.3 petrol.

Not helped by the fact that our local friendly dealers were bought out by a faceless conglomerate with consequent dive in service quality.

However, car making world wide is in crisis. US manufacturers are ditching Europe and other markets due to emissions restrictions (e.g.: GM selling off Vauxhall). No-one knows whether to buy a diesel, petrol, hybrid or electric. I know of several people who are putting off buying new cars until the situation settles down.

My oppo in work who would normally have changed his 4 year old Focus TDCI late last year is hanging on as he's not sure what the taxation will be and the possibility of him having to pay a "pollution tax" to drive into his local city [Leeds] is on the immediate horizon.

SWMBO is hanging onto her current Audi until the decision for petrol / diesel becomes clear. She would normally be looking to swap her nearly 6 year old car later this year.

Most electric cars are completely sh!t unless you never do more than 50 miles. Try your Nissan Leaf when it's -5°C outside and you need the heater on. Watch the range meter plummet as soon as you hit the rear screen heater button. Your [alleged] 250 mile range will fall by 1/3 but then factor in that a realistic range for a Leaf is actually 150 miles in proper driving and you will be down to 100 miles range.

Hybrids are stupid money expensive and not that economical as they are dragging round 400kg of extra weight in the battery and electric motor (that's more than 4 average size adults in weight).

Until there is a decent alternative to Petrol/Diesel then the car industry will continue in crisis.

"However, car making world wide is in crisis."

Spot on, that sums it up
 
#43
#46
A pity no one is looking for a start up building Hydrogen fueled cars.
The problem with Hydrogen cars is that if you think the current crop of HEVs, PHEVs and EVs are expensive, those are even more eye wateringly more so. The average FCV (Fuel cell vehicle) easily costs more than a 100 grand, just to produce. And H2 production (which is mostly wasteful, compared to even gasoline) and the infrastructure, packaging have a long way to go. It will happen - a lot of companies are working on it, but don't expect mass production in the next 5 to 10years.

Who know, the companies working on it may come up with some really innovative and "disruptive" tech which may speed the whole thing up. But people are working on it. Toyota's long term strategy is not EVs but fuel cell vehicles. Hence they don't have much in the EV market and bet on the hybrids.
 
#48
Government will not give up fuel tax revenue lightly and will find other ways of squeezing money out of our pockets one way or another. We do not really pay significant amounts in road tax here, I think it is around about $50 - $60 a year for a family vehicle. There are, in Texarrse, a lot of toll roads, especially around the city's so we do get charged for distance when using urban motorways, ring roads and the like. We stick a little electronic sticker widget on the windscreen and it gets read when we enter and leave toll roads. So that could be one way of charging people for usage.
RFID sticker tag technology operating at 915MHz. ;-)

I know quite a few of the companies and faces involved in its provision, and have done for some years. The question next is how to extend payment to cover wear and tear on non-tolled facilities. That includes public roads.

There was a lot of work done in Oregon on distance-based pricing; one of those intimately involved in the work is a regular number on my call list.

Realistically, distance-based tolling (I won't say 'charging' here, because I want to make a clear distinction between paying for road use and powering up a vehicle) is the only way to do things. It won't be done with RFID, though - that would mean putting gantries on every road everywhere. Not just strategic and primary routes, but also those right out in the sticks. It would be too costly and you've got the additional issue of the visual intrusion of large, ugly steel structures in inhabited urban areas... people don't want 'em.

The Oregon project looked at various in-vehicle solutions. You can't use the odometer, for instance, because of its inherent inaccuracy (made worse by under- or over-inflated tyres, or the fitting of non-standard wheel/tyre combos). The only solution which really worked was GPS.

You then move into the realms of having to tell people that they're being tracked (those who rage about privacy when tolling is mentioned conveniently forget it when using a nav system or app... something that the idiots writing in the tabloids over here should get their shitwit brains around), and finding some way of firewalling the data such that people are accurately charged for the miles they've done but without invading their privacy.

It is possible, it's just that convincing the public takes some doing, and there are always single-issue pressure groups or shyster journalists looking to whip up a frenzy who, with one biased or malevolent comment, can put the public education/reassurance campaign back years.
 
#52
RFID sticker tag technology operating at 915MHz. ;-)
Thats the widget.

I know quite a few of the companies and faces involved in its provision, and have done for some years. The question next is how to extend payment to cover wear and tear on non-tolled facilities. That includes public roads.

There was a lot of work done in Oregon on distance-based pricing; one of those intimately involved in the work is a regular number on my call list.

Realistically, distance-based tolling (I won't say 'charging' here, because I want to make a clear distinction between paying for road use and powering up a vehicle) is the only way to do things. It won't be done with RFID, though - that would mean putting gantries on every road everywhere. Not just strategic and primary routes, but also those right out in the sticks. It would be too costly and you've got the additional issue of the visual intrusion of large, ugly steel structures in inhabited urban areas... people don't want 'em.

The Oregon project looked at various in-vehicle solutions. You can't use the odometer, for instance, because of its inherent inaccuracy (made worse by under- or over-inflated tyres, or the fitting of non-standard wheel/tyre combos). The only solution which really worked was GPS.

You then move into the realms of having to tell people that they're being tracked (those who rage about privacy when tolling is mentioned conveniently forget it when using a nav system or app... something that the idiots writing in the tabloids over here should get their shitwit brains around), and finding some way of firewalling the data such that people are accurately charged for the miles they've done but without invading their privacy.


It is possible, it's just that convincing the public takes some doing, and there are always single-issue pressure groups or shyster journalists looking to whip up a frenzy who, with one biased or malevolent comment, can put the public education/reassurance campaign back years.
Sadly though recent history has shown us: Where there is data, big brother will eventually have his way.

I cannot remember the exact figure but, in the UK something like 95% of the population live within 5 miles of a motorway - well they did when I had to measure it some years ago. Factor that against the trips people make outside that 5 mile zone and IMHO the economics of putting up gantry's outside the zone would not be economically viable. Just charge people within the 5 mile zone and on major routes, like A roads outside the zone.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
#54
For how many weeks? They are saying JLR jobs are due to Brexit now
They said that then too....it's a remarkable piece of timing.
As for Hondas I always liked their cars, the insurance in NI was always fairly hefty on them.
'Parts big lad. Japs, really far away'.

'It was built in Swindon'.
 
#56
Thats the widget.



Sadly though recent history has shown us: Where there is data, big brother will eventually have his way.

I cannot remember the exact figure but, in the UK something like 95% of the population live within 5 miles of a motorway - well they did when I had to measure it some years ago. Factor that against the trips people make outside that 5 mile zone and IMHO the economics of putting up gantry's outside the zone would not be economically viable. Just charge people within the 5 mile zone and on major routes, like A roads outside the zone.
I bet the RAF Regt are happy
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#57
So who would go out and order a Swindon built Honda now that the workforce have been told to start job hunting? Will they still care about the quality, or will they just slap the cars together with 25mm wood screws and chewing gum? I mean, it's not like they have to worry about their long term future at the plant now, is it?
 
#58
So who would go out and order a Swindon built Honda now that the workforce have been told to start job hunting? Will they still care about the quality, or will they just slap the cars together with 25mm wood screws and chewing gum? I mean, it's not like they have to worry about their long term future at the plant now, is it?
So a Friday car
 
#59
I cannot remember the exact figure but, in the UK something like 95% of the population live within 5 miles of a motorway - well they did when I had to measure it some years ago. Factor that against the trips people make outside that 5 mile zone and IMHO the economics of putting up gantry's outside the zone would not be economically viable. Just charge people within the 5 mile zone and on major routes, like A roads outside the zone.
A number of issues there: it would unfairly penalise those using strategic roads, and you run the risk of rat-running on minor roads. Also, how do you hypothecate for local authorities? Charging on strategic roads will throw money at Highways England but not those who need it elsewhere.
 

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