Standing alert; try another way....

#1
Having watched R. Lee Ermey firing the M1 Garand in the standing alert, I noted that his left hand was arrse about face, compared to the way we teach squaddies to shoot.

The method usually employed has the thumb to the left of the forestock, and the fingers to the right. Gunny had the opposite; he'd twisted his hand 180 degrees and had the thumb on the right, fingers to the left. Knowing that the USMC take shooting pretty seriously, I tried it on a DCCT. Its a bit odd at first, but very rapidly feels fine. the left arm seems to be notably more stable, and I "shot" a 225 mm group at 100m, pretty much straight away.

Some other blokes ( quite naturally) slagged me off for the new gay position, but to their credit, tried it, and found it worked for them too.

Anyone else tried holding the weapon like this?
 
#2
(looks a tit in his office for trying it out with imaginary M1) - No, not tried it but I observe that rotating the hand through 90 (thumb right, fingers left) relaxes the bicep and forearm muscles hence the arm in that position is actually in a more natural position. It might have something to do with it.

With the left arm and hand hanging loose, just bending the arm up at the elbow puts you in position (looks camp though).
 
#4
The stance was put forward by the USMC "Marksmanship Training Unit" at Quantico. The MTU is a bit of a misnomer as it is actually the lair of the cadre of world class shooters for the USMC just as the "Army Marksmanship Training Unit" at Ft. Benning. The 2 units usually end up shooting against each other in national matches where victory is usually a matter of who had more "x's."
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#5
Pah MTU, I give you the SASC, no names or pics for security reasons, the wingnut ears and shit grins damaged my camera!
The SASC, doing less for army marksmanship than the taliban!
 
#6
Yes I use that one...works well but I'm still crap. I use the 'high' right elbow too with the rifle butt high up in the shoulder rather than low down, looks a bit wierd but once you get used to it it helps.
 
#8
Pah MTU, I give you the SASC, no names or pics for security reasons, the wingnut ears and shit grins damaged my camera!
The SASC, doing less for army marksmanship than the taliban!
.....Ah but the pamphlet says.......Some of these guys would argue black was white if it was in the pamphlet. Anything outside these bloody tomes, no matter how good was ignored because of ignorance.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#10
Its a real pity that their reputation is so tarnished, 30 years ago the QMSI of the local SASC couldnt do enough for us! What sucked was he took all the intakes remedial shots and formed the shooting team from them. The rest of us were stuck with our own staff or the U18 Pln of the D&Ds who were better in my opinion than our own!
There is no substitute for 1-1 coaching for beginners even if the coaches are only a few months ahead of the trainees at least they havent had time to pick up bad habits.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#11
Looks very interesting. I'm zeroing tommorow, and looking forward to trying this out.

Many thanks. CJ
Let us know how it works out, curious if it will transfer between positions.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
I zero now from a portable bench, the emphasis is on comfort for me now, I havent fired from the prone position apart from a week in scotland for close on 20 years. I damaged my neck and shoulder in a crash causing my discharge from the reserves on medical grounds.
Anyway I do most shooting standing supported or sat in a high seat.
 
#14
Let us know how it works out, curious if it will transfer between positions.
Was out the back this morning having a play with the 6.5. Tried the hold in the sitting and it feels very comfortable if a little unusual. I feel that I got a better lock with this hold, having said that I do have some damage to my arm making a firm hold in the standing and sitting/squatting position a little difficult.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#15
Us damaged old goods may find this useful!
 
#16
I do a lot of shooting from the bench too these days, I no longer have to get my arrse wet when I shoot. If the weather improves this evening I will have a wee look to see if there is a marked difference in POI and consistency of group as I have some more 6.5 loaded for testing.
 
#18
I have just got hold of a Howa 6.5 x 55 Swede. The cunning plan is to develop both target and hunting loads for myself and my daughter. I will be putting a decent stock on it when time allows them maybe later get a longer barrel put on. Interestingly the first loads using what powder I had all produced sub 25mm groups, both with 123g Amax and 140g Amax. AS I have no Vit 160 I have used Rel 15 for the 123g loads and am now grouping 15-18mm with five founds at 100m. Not too shabby for a factory rifle with a bendy stock.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#19
A proper vfm rifle if ever there was one!
 

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