Standards/Numbers Game

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by polar, Sep 17, 2011.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. With proposed changes to increase the TA size......

    Does this mean 'standards' will be ignored even more, becoming endemic?

    Recent 'standards' failure, people being re-traded to other trades which had been barred to them as a recruit .... and 'passed' trade tests ... and 'passed' to manage soldiers in that trade. I'm pretty liberal but I knew it wasn't going to work

    Numbers game??? Urrrrghh, the main failure of the TA? or is it just some cap badges?
  2. Your Capbadge mate. Always been like that. Unlike us Infanteers, snowy white we are, everyone always properly tested and fully qualified for the job in hand.


    That said - you think its only the TA ? I never knew 34 came right after 26 until I watched a Regular MT Platoon doing sit-ups for a PFT.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. lol.....

    maybe capbadge but you wouldn't get the problem.

    Some of these soldiers should have been told to move to jobs in other units because signals was overbearing in trades for there ability. - like thats ever gonna happen.
  4. Think its all politics as the TA at present is well undermanned therefore the goverment stating the TA is going to increase in size and commit more to Ops is pie in the sky time ,when the budget got tight what closed first ?? TA stopped training ,one Army Regular and closed, they will not up the budget just defleck the question of where the resources are coming from.
  5. With very few exceptions there are no standards in todays TA. Tell me how you can get a deferred pass on courses such as CIC and JNCO due to fitness reasons? Fitness should be the foundation of both those courses yet it seems that a blind eye is being turned for the sake of numbers.

    Are we no longer able to "test" soldiers? If this is the case then we may aswell shut up shop now and spend our free time doing something else. That may save some money.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. On my TA CIC (July 2010) our platoon commander didn't give a toss and refused to give out any deferred passes. Only 17 passed out of my platoon :/ several getting binned for fitness on the first day bayonet training/beasting, and at least six or seven for failing the six mile tab on the final day. There was no 'get to the four mile point and show some grit and you'll get through'. You either made the time or didn't, as it should be.
  7. That's good to hear mate, the way it should be. It was the same on mine. 8 miler on day one. You didn't finish, you got straight back on the bus and went home.
  8. On deferred, suppose it's better for me to look at my own actions rather than whinging. I've tended to use my own unofficial grading system.

    1. Deferred - No chance. Yeah really a fail and don't bother re-attending
    2. Deferred - May pass, but really needs a longer training regime with plenty remedial sessions (should attend regular course??), may need supervision for several years (i.e. restricted to class 3)
    3. Deferred - should have passed.
    4. Pass
    5. Distinction - would give above average performance if mobilised, does not need to attend the longer courses.

    I should never see the first group, entrance rules bar them from trades I work with. Similar for the 2nd group, TA courses tend to be condensed and more intense, maybe trade entrance requirements should be higher for TA (this is backed up by some education corps papers I've read). This bit tends to be my corps specific but I've seen it in the infantry, we sacked people from Sigs Platoon and moved them to MT - which is a lot easier to do in infantry than RSigs (and a reason why I've listed 2 fail groups as deferred).

    On the last cadre I was on, I passed a number of the 3rd category (deferred - should have passed) as straight passes. My main reason was their performance was obviously down to instructor, e.g. after 8 periods! of batco they still made basic errors but gained above average passes on more difficult topics (I now know these weak instructors but no good for the students on that week long course - I suspect they were deferred/weak pass during their original trade training, what goes around comes around).
  9. You have perpetuated and so become part of the fail regime.

    Units will expect the blokes to actually have passed if you say they've passed and you are not delivering the product they expect

    If its down to poor DS then the DS issue should be addressed so that sub standard Scalies are not put into the system. Its not fair on the students, on the unit or the Army.
  10. I standby my actions... but a lot more went on (lets say - I went for non pass options).

    Surely though, sub standards would be picked up upon?
  11. Was this trade training or recruit trainning? recently my unit have had 3 guys come back from Grantham after the 2 weeker (insert name of what ever its called this month) with deffered passes for shooting and weapon handling I cant help thinking they really are not spending enough time on the range and doing weapon handling, maybe stick another weekend or two on just for thoose subjects as they are the 2 subjects i would never give defered passes for
  12. The range time my crows are given is, quite frankly, appalling. Too much on V&S or some other pointless shite. I was recently informed that they don't even fire blank till w/e 6 (of phase 1). Something to do with WHT's needing to be done. Why does it take till that point to get them done? If a recruit cannot grasp the basics of safe weapon handling then he/she gets back squadded. No? This is where we start to come across a dilution of standards surely. Is it maybe time to seriously consider that one drill night a week is not enough. Two drill nights a week is 4 hours of training time that could be put to good use. This would, however, rely on a CoC that put together a training program relevant to maintaining a units effectiveness in their given role. No excuse for a drop in standards then?
  13. Jesus, where do I begin?


    1. The recruits need to pass ( PASS) WHTs before they can fire weapons. Do you seriously have a problem with this?
    2. I'm not even sure they fire blanks, but they do fire live 5.56. Call me old-fashioned, but I'd like the crows to be safe and proficient in their weapon handling before they get anywhere near live rounds.
    3. If the recruits fails WHTs, they get back squadded. There are no exceptions, there is no dilution of standards.
    4. Most units ( certainly infantry) seem to have no problem with getting their blokes to pass WHTs. No extra drill nights, either, just RTTs concened to see that their blokes pass.
    5. If there is a drop in standards (which I don't see; but Infantry are pretty much ALWAYS better at weapon handling than Corps) then perhaps your unit should take ownership of your recruits training needs and not simply rely on the RTC?
    6. You think V&S are "shite"? I suspect the concept of Moral Component eludes you, as it did those in charge of one Mr. B Mousa, dec'd.
  14. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    For Infantry recruits WHTs are conducted on the first day of CIC. Failure to pass (they do allow them one retest the same day) results in RTU. I've known lads to fail CIC for poor Field Craft, Admin, Phys and Weapon Handling. No deferred passes, if you fail you have to redo the course. I think that ITC Catterick has actually been pretty good at keeping standards up for the past few years.

    Polar, I'm struggling to understand how you can start a thread bemoaning 'paper passes' and then insist that you have no problem passing recruits based on your own assessment of their efforts rather than the actual criteria. You may be entirely right in your assessment that the reason for their failure to pass was not their fault, but the fact remains that they didn't reach the required level. And now you are responsible for passing sub-standard recruits and thereby passing on the problem instead of actually fixing it.
  15. Weakness on the part of the RLC, as simple as that. Should also ask you to consider your units input into the training of those recruits prior to them going to Grantham.