Staffords vote with their feet

#1
Sunday Mirror EXCLUSIVE: BASRA BLAZE TROOPS QUIT: A QUARTER OF REGIMENT WON'T GO BACK TO IRAQ

EXCLUSIVE: BASRA BLAZE TROOPS QUIT
A QUARTER OF REGIMENT WON'T GO BACK TO IRAQ
By Rupert Hamer Defence Correspondent
AN Army regiment whose troops were pictured leaping from a burning vehicle in Basra have seen a quarter of their soldiers quit after being told they are going back to Iraq.

Three soldiers of the 1st Battalion, The Staffordshire Regiment died and 20 were injured in the last tour of duty which ended 10 months ago.

The regiment is now due back in Iraq in October - but 163 out of 650 servicemen have left. A senior Army source said: "There is no doubt that the fact that these men are being asked to go back to Iraq so soon has caused the exodus.

"Under the Army's own guidelines there should be a two-year gap between operational tours. The Staffords have barely had half that time."

Two of the troops pictured leaping from their burning Warrior armoured car - Sergeant George Long, 30, and Lance Corporal Jo McCann, 20 - have not quit the Army and are in line to go back to Iraq.

The revelation comes just a day after the Army released figures showing that recruitment had risen in recent months.


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But they admitted they have still not reached their targets.


If a battalion lost 163 soldiers as war casualties, it would be called "operationally ineffective" and withdrawn if reinforcements were not available. An Army spokesman said this would not affect the regiment's deployment.


AT least 13 people died in Iraq yesterday. Four coalition soldiers were killed by a roadside bomb. Three also died in Afghanistan.


IRAQ DEATH TOLL


THIS WEEK


Allies 4


Iraqis 176


TOTAL SO FAR


Allies 2,706


Iraqis 29,918
 
#2
Has there ever been any unit in the British Army which has experienced the full time off deployments according to the Harmony Guidelines? Last week the Army was crowing about it's recruitment figures. This will definately let the wind out of their sails. My only question is why did these soldiers join the army in the first place? I suppose that when they joined the world seemed like a benign place, where life for a squaddie was a relatively nice and safe place. Thanks to Bliar following the US foreign policy, the world is more dangerous for us.

If they are NCOs who have families I can understand it. What the head-shed need to realise is that they may want the Army to come first, but in actuality most married soldiers will say that family comes first and the army a close second. They cannot keep this pressure up and expect the whole system not to start haemoraging. This will probably only be the beginning. Squaddies will talk with their feet.
 
#3
I get the feeling this thread was posted by a dis-gruntled Stafford who is
scared to show his face . Well mate we are all in the same boat , i'm on
my third tour of Iraq since 2003 .We flew out on Telic 8 a year to the day that we flew back from Telic 5 . Its the army so just get on with it .We are in the QDG .
 
#4
Oh but I understood that the Army is "stretched but not over-stretched".

(c) D Browne, J Reid, G Hoon, A Ingram, M Walker, M Jackson & Co 1997-2006
 
#5
Hackle you beat me to it, has anyone heard anything to match such utter rubbish from people who should know better. They will live to regret the day they chose to be "economical" with the truth about over-stretch. We will be using words like "broken" at this rate.
 
#6
Those that have left have voted with their feet, just as those that have decided to stay have.

Lets not have the same old "I've had it tougher than you so stop whingeing" argument that crops up every time someone raises a genuine and perfectly reasonable quality of life issue in the forces.

Those cnuts at the MOD rely on this so they can continue f**king you lads about with impunity.
 
#7
I heard that an awful lot of the PWRR had also signed off, although my impression was to some extent the fact that a lot of blokes had done what they joined to do and therefore 'job done, time to leave'. Not sure to what extent that's true but I can certainly empathise with such feelings.
 
#8
PoisonDwarf said:
... my impression was to some extent the fact that a lot of blokes had done what they joined to do and therefore 'job done, time to leave'. Not sure to what extent that's true but I can certainly empathise with such feelings.
Me too. Bound to be a factor. What really struck me about the story is how short a tour interval this Bn are getting.
 
#9
I get the feeling this thread was posted by a dis-gruntled Stafford who is
scared to show his face . Well mate we are all in the same boat , i'm on
my third tour of Iraq since 2003 .We flew out on Telic 8 a year to the day that we flew back from Telic 5 . Its the army so just get on with it .We are in the QDG .
That's fine, Paveway - you're obviously capable of 'sucking it up'... However, that's

a) an arrogant remark that is inappropriate...

b) not the point: if the terms of service and conditions are such that these sort of numbers are voting with their feet, the situation is unsustainable for the Army: young singlies newly joined may well love back to back tours, but anyone with a family and/or other commitments will not...

Reminds me of Huw Pike briefing young infantry officers after the Falklands: one of his quotes was "married men are no use as soldiers"... We all looked at his rolling, insane eyes, and made our own judgement - particularly as he was married... :D
 
#10
No mention of the influence the upcoming merger would have then?
 
#11
What really struck me about the story is how short a tour interval this Bn are getting.
Yup -factor in post tour leave, and pre-deployment training, and they must have got - what? about 6 months of normality? Think of the knock-on effects on career courses and skills training...
 
#12
No mention of the influence the upcoming merger would have then?
Hmm - you're right, of course, Pongo - that should have reduced the numbers leaving: unlike the old and bold, serving soldiers would have recognised that a merger would improve the ability to man the Regiment, and manage tour intervals: so it would probably be even worse if it weren't for that...
 
#13
Though not a Stafford, I worked with them up at Al Amarah for the first part of their tour there last year. At the time they seemed a very positive upbeat Battalion, unlike the morale vacumn that was the Welsh Guards who preceeded them. I agree with the majority of posts on this thread, sending the Staffords back so soon must be a major factor in causing such a large PVR rate.

Coming back to the Welsh Guards, if memory serves they got royally shafted a few years back. Upon return from a Bosnia tour they were informed that POTL was cancelled and they were all off driving green goddesses on OP FRESCO. They were still hacked off with that when they were in Iraq!
 
#14
I don't follow the party line on this one, I think you underestimate what effect loseing your capbadge has on the moral of the blokes. The options for change amalgamations had similar effects and it took a good few years for the regiments to get any sense of moral back. Good job the crows can no longer PVR or it would probably be worse.
 
#15
A months after coming back from Iraq, they were sent to Canada, only got back a couple of weeks ago. Not much time for families with that schedule.
My mate isnt bothered though, I think hes looking forward to it!
 
#16
Was told today by a mate in the Engineers that as of now he has had enough and is signing off.

18 years in and just been messed about / Telic'd 1,4 and ? about too much.

Tried to talk about only 3 and then resettlement etc but he is not having any of it . Medical next week.
 
#17
There comes a time for everyman when he just decides to go, and I would prefer to have someone leave than fight through with an ever worsening attitude to the mob.

Every one ALWAYS refers to a tour as 6 months, it is not.

I undertook somewhere in the region of 8 weeks of training in preparation for my most recent tour, most of which was conducted away from unit, including a 5 week block in UK which finished only 2 weeks prior to deployment.

If the Staffords have been sent to Canada straight after and then expected to go to Iraq again I can see why many would want to leave.
 
#18
There is always a breaking point, blokes, and not privates, troopers, sappers and the like but high quality JNCO's and SNCO's are facing bigger challenges for the no reward as the Army has seen in this generation. The standard of equipment, the amount of training offered and allowed, and the shaky policy that puts into these places has pushed many a good man to breaking point.
I find that the level of niff naff and trivia that gets dumped on you when you get back to your training year prevents a proper work hard play hard ethic that used to serve the British Army so well. Not that I have been in a Regiment that works off a readyness cycle as of yet, as we are a permenantly operational unit, with close to 1/3rd of the Regiment on Op tour and the other 2/3rds on short notice pagers or fuel warden courses! This is all well and good until your think that my Regiment has been in Iraq since the warfighting and will be amoung the the very last to leave, so working in thirds there is a bit of a short tour interval!
The latest bouts of cutbacks to the men we need most ie the Infantry will not help their cause or those other units around them, hence the QDG type units completing more Op tours than most in recent years. It is only a matter of time before the good will of those serving runs out, it almost did for me last year on Telic. It's a sad state of affairs but it will continue until the deployments lessen.......
 
#19
It didnt mean to be an arrogant comment , it seems the same old regiments get stiffed for the same tours . We are all sick of it ,however
we are take the pay packet at the end of the month .I am sure there will come a time when'' the wheels will fall off'' i am sure. My unit is coming to the end of its third tour so i believe my opinion is very relevant .I have more desert kit than DPM .
 
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