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Staff Sergeant v Flight Sergeant v Warrant Officer Class 2

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#1
I am about to be posted to a RAF unit and am a SSgt. I have been forewarned that all the Flight Sergeants (of the RAF) think that they hold the same rank as WO2. I know that FS do not hold the Royal Warrant.

Can anyone clear this up. I am not looking for an individual opinion, rather some direction about where I can find the documentation that says SSgt and FS are the same.

Perhaps someone with NATO experience can shed some light on this in light of the fact that they will know what the NATO OR rank numbers mean.
 
#2
canteen_cowboy said:
ginger_whinger said:
I am about to be posted to a RAF unit and am a SSgt. I have been forewarned that all the Flight Sergeants (of the RAF) think that they hold the same rank as WO2. I know that FS do not hold the Royal Warrant.

Can anyone clear this up. I am not looking for an individual opinion, rather some direction about where I can find the documentation that says SSgt and FS are the same.

Perhaps someone with NATO experience can shed some light on this in light of the fact that they will know what the NATO OR rank numbers mean.
as far as it is concerned a SSGT is equal to flt sgt and chief tech! Achief technician is appointed for some of the technical trades, similar i suppose to Yos tiffy etc, more of a title than a rank!!:D

try this link!!http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/content.php3?page=3924
I also answered with same in sigs thread!!
 
#3
If you check out the pay rates for the Army SSgt and WO11 are both on the same range - Range 4. SSgt are able to get paid levels 1-7 while WO11 are paid levels 5-9.

Surely that means that the crabs are partly right. Some senior FSgt's will be the equivilant of WO11's :!:
 
#4
Of course as I have previously stated on other threads any Army Pte out ranks any bloody crab/matlow!!! Goes without saying really that we are a naturally superior service. :twisted:
 
#5
FLLnurse said:
If you check out the pay rates for the Army SSgt and WO11 are both on the same range - Range 4. SSgt are able to get paid levels 1-7 while WO11 are paid levels 5-9.

Surely that means that the crabs are partly right. Some senior FSgt's will be the equivilant of WO11's :!:
Not quite, as pay bands are different to the rank, with your theory, a SSGT and WO2 on band 6 should be the same rank, but they are not!!
 
#6
The differences between the Army and RAF ranks is quite significant because of the likely age differences, based on differences in the terms of service. A RAF flight sergeant will normally have been promoted later than a staff sergeant/colour sergeant, based on the trade orientation of the RAF and the fact that the Army sign personnel on a 22 year contract whereas the RAF take a longer view. This can cause some friction and some sensitivity on both sides may be needed. I've known some very young WOs and one of them was just slightly older than a RAF corporal I knew. The WO2 was certainly a high flier but the RAF corporal was at the expected stage in his career path and was no slacker.

One of those many differences.....
 
#7
The 'official' answer is to check QRs. I can't remember the para (thank god) but somewhere in there is a section that shows the rank equivalents.
 
#9
I thought the only equal rank was leading aircraftsman (= to LCpl). But, seriously, you'll notice the difference in man management, etc, so you get respect soooooner or later. Or you'll turn into a crab slowly but surely. Where is that numbnuts who sits on his arrse all day........er...... Mushhead, er, mushroom, or magic mushroom. He's been in 3 years and already he's a FSGT !! He can better advise.
 
#10
Just to clarify (you may not have QRs rapidly to hand, as I do!)

CSgts (inc RM), SSgts and SCpl are all OR - 7, as are FSgts and Ch Techs in the RAF.

There is no equivalent rank for the British Army Warrant Officer Class 2 OR-8 in the RAF.

The RAF ranks of Warrant Officer (inc Master Aircrew, such as Master Signaller, Master Engineer, Master Air Electronics Operator and Master Air Loadmaster) are equivalent to OR - 9 - the same as the British Army Warrant Officer Class One.

This is the official line.

Hope this helps! :D
 
#12
The average time to reach Cpl in the RAF is 9 years in many trades. Unlike the Army, RAF pers sign on for 6 or 9 years to start with, then go on to 22 or age 55. The Army do seem to get quicker promotion, which is sometimes a cause of some envy.

It may be that some FS do jobs which in the Army may be done by WO2's (such as Chf Clk) but this is to do with the different structure of units rather than rank equivalence.

SNCO Aircrew are like nurses, given artificially high rank from the outset in order to pay them more. They are as effective as NCOs as nurseys, too - mostly crap.
 
#13
Unless your my mate, serve since 1990 as an SAC, do an RAF equilvalent to a cadre (work every Wednesday in a charity shop!), then, after 13 years whinging cos you don't get promoted, do six months in Basra, then come home and sign off 'cos I was doing things I wasn't prepared to do'.

Here's me thinking life wasn't a stage show anywhoooooo.
 
#14
ginger_whinger said:
Can anyone clear this up. I am not looking for an individual opinion, rather some direction about where I can find the documentation that says SSgt and FS are the same.
At its basic level

The Warrant Officer is referred too as ........... SIR :twisted:

The Flight Sergeant is referred too as ........... FLIGHT :cry:

get my drift :twisted:
 
#16
Different people that do different jobs in different timescales in different places. It matters not over who you exactly compare to. You will be a minority so that can work both ways. I'd like to think that there would be mutual respect and an acceptance that it is horses for courses. The only problems seem to be when working joint. I knew RAF Cpls that had more time in and more Op experience than their SSgt when down the Falklands etc. Not much of an issue at SNCO.
Enjoy your quality time with the Junior Service. Remember - we check in, not dig in.
 
#17
As a WO2 I was confronted by a RAF FS in the Mess one function, who tried taking the pi55 by calling me 'half a Warrant Officer'.

But, as a holder of the Royal Warrant, by definition you are a Warrant Officer - and any suggestion that they are equal in rank should be dismissed out of hand.

I note that the RN have recently adopted the rank of WO2. That makes the RAF out of step with the other two services, perhaps they will be brought into line at some point soon?
 
#18
I wouldn't be too worried about the Flight Sergeant, it's the corporals and the Sergeants you'll have to be nice too! Some of them will have been 'at rank' for longer than you've been in the Army! Worked along side the RAF for five years, when I got there I was in charge of a section as a newly promoted sergeant. Found out that two of the senior corporals had been corporals for 14 years!
 
#19
Mutineer said:
But, as a holder of the Royal Warrant, by definition you are a Warrant Officer - and any suggestion that they are equal in rank should be dismissed out of hand.
They would absolutely jump out their pensioner RAF slacks to be WO2s. Jealous bunch of wasters. They get careers to 55 cos most of them are so hopeless that they couldn't possibly resettle successfully - they'd be shocked at having to work for a living.

PD
 
#20
Why is the RAF viewed by most as the most technically advanced and modern service when you can't get commisioned from the ranks, get to wear a uniform from 50 years ago and have very poor promotion prospects.
 
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