Staff Cars

#1
Senior Officers get sooooo excited about their cars.

Questions:
Should they use cars or Landrovers for daily work?

Do they need any bigger cars or are they about right?

Should the rules on use be relaxed?

Should drivers get extra pay and longer leave periods?

Should the whole operation be leased out and an attempt be made to get rid of the last vestiges of the old army (batmen et al)
 
#2
I’m a staff car driver for a full colonel and he thought it was his birthday when I had to sign for the new Vectra.

He thinks that I am his personnel taxi driver, I don’t mind driving him during the day or to the occasional mess dinner (that is my job after all) but when I have to drive him during a weekend to watch his son play football or pick up his wife from town I get a bit pi**ed off.

In answer to your question I think it is being looked into to get a civvi firm to drive all the staff cars, then us soldiers could crack on and do what we do best… drink tea and smoke tabs.
 
#3
Outstanding said:
Senior Officers get sooooo excited about their cars.

Questions:
Should they use cars or Landrovers for daily work?
No landrovers are expensive, uneconomic and hardly suitable for some of the work that is carried out by officer's entitled to a Staff Car.

Do they need any bigger cars or are they about right?
Staff cars are issued according to rank IIRC. I'd hardly like to see GOC 1 (UK) Armd Div being driven around in a Corsa!

Should the rules on use be relaxed?
No. JSP 341 states what is classed as official use. They are not for ferrying Mrs Senior Officer to Marks and Spencer / Marktkauf.

Should drivers get extra pay and longer leave periods?
No. I think the posting as a Staff Car Driver has its pro's and con's. The most important part is who the Officer is and what they are like to work for.

Should the whole operation be leased out and an attempt be made to get rid of the last vestiges of the old army (batmen et al)
No. The old army needs to remain in certain respects. Otherwise we'll all be calling each other comrade.
My responses in bold.
 
#4
smart_as_a_carrot said:
I’m a staff car driver for a full colonel and he thought it was his birthday when I had to sign for the new Vectra.

He thinks that I am his personnel taxi driver, I don’t mind driving him during the day or to the occasional mess dinner (that is my job after all) but when I have to drive him during a weekend to watch his son play football or pick up his wife from town I get a bit pi**ed off.

In answer to your question I think it is being looked into to get a civvi firm to drive all the staff cars, then us soldiers could crack on and do what we do best… drink tea and smoke tabs.
IIRC the bits that you get annoyed with are illegal journeys and not what Staff Cars or the drivers are meant for. Go through your chain of command to get it resolved.
 
#5
Horridlittleman said:
smart_as_a_carrot said:
I’m a staff car driver for a full colonel and he thought it was his birthday when I had to sign for the new Vectra.

He thinks that I am his personnel taxi driver, I don’t mind driving him during the day or to the occasional mess dinner (that is my job after all) but when I have to drive him during a weekend to watch his son play football or pick up his wife from town I get a bit pi**ed off.

In answer to your question I think it is being looked into to get a civvi firm to drive all the staff cars, then us soldiers could crack on and do what we do best… drink tea and smoke tabs.
IIRC the bits that you get annoyed with are illegal journeys and not what Staff Cars or the drivers are meant for. Go through your chain of command to get it resolved.
Yeah, then see a nice big D on your next CR
 
#6
SACT - to clarify, you should not be driving him to watch his son play footie or to pick his wife up from town - unless these are recognisable duty functions. A full colonel in Germany almost got cashiered - and prompted a crack down on the mis-use of AD Transport - a few years back when it transpired that he was sending his car to the airport to pick up his wife.

Many senior officer appointments now do not come with a military driver as such but rely on 1/2/3 or even 4* patronage to hoik a poor unsuspecting squaddie out of the Bn to work for 'the boss'. Either that or as in a case in my Regt in Germany, the CO gets a phone call from a 2* and says "I used to have SSgt X as my driver. I have just sacked the current oik and would like him back - can do?"

Those organisations that now have a TSU allocate drivers but this seems to be a bit hap-hazard.

To return to Outstanding's original questions:

1. Yes, whichever is most appropriate.
2. They are about right - but wouldn't it be nice if they could be British?
3. No, the rules are sensible but are clearly abused. They could, however be more flexible but not at the detriment of the por sod you is driving.
4. ED pay should be applied where this is clearly ED (which should be voluntary). In my experience, good COs more than compansate for the long hours worked with time-off when it is possible and recognition for a good job.
5. Reliable civvies? An oximoron?
 
#7
drain_sniffer said:
Horridlittleman said:
smart_as_a_carrot said:
I’m a staff car driver for a full colonel and he thought it was his birthday when I had to sign for the new Vectra.

He thinks that I am his personnel taxi driver, I don’t mind driving him during the day or to the occasional mess dinner (that is my job after all) but when I have to drive him during a weekend to watch his son play football or pick up his wife from town I get a bit pi**ed off.

In answer to your question I think it is being looked into to get a civvi firm to drive all the staff cars, then us soldiers could crack on and do what we do best… drink tea and smoke tabs.
IIRC the bits that you get annoyed with are illegal journeys and not what Staff Cars or the drivers are meant for. Go through your chain of command to get it resolved.
Yeah, then see a nice big D on your next CR
And if the boss is using the vehicle and driver illegally he has a lot more to lose!
 
#8
Horridlittleman said:
Outstanding said:
Senior Officers get sooooo excited about their cars.

Questions:
Should they use cars or Landrovers for daily work?
No landrovers are expensive, uneconomic and hardly suitable for some of the work that is carried out by officer's entitled to a Staff Car.

Do they need any bigger cars or are they about right?
Staff cars are issued according to rank IIRC. I'd hardly like to see GOC 1 (UK) Armd Div being driven around in a Corsa!

Should the rules on use be relaxed?
No. JSP 341 states what is classed as official use. They are not for ferrying Mrs Senior Officer to Marks and Spencer / Marktkauf.

Should drivers get extra pay and longer leave periods?
No. I think the posting as a Staff Car Driver has its pro's and con's. The most important part is who the Officer is and what they are like to work for.

Should the whole operation be leased out and an attempt be made to get rid of the last vestiges of the old army (batmen et al)
No. The old army needs to remain in certain respects. Otherwise we'll all be calling each other comrade.
My responses in bold.
But every CO already has a Landrover sitting doing nothing. It may not be as convenient or smart, but it would probably prevent much misuse.

What would wrong with GOC being driven in a small car - does big car equal big man in your eyes or is the job what matters?

Why shouldn't guys benfit from being abused like Carrot above? they have no ther means of recompense, yes of couirse they get all the false platitudes ("please nip orf and have a break - back at half six eh?") but they remain abused.

What is important about who the passenger is? Do you drive differently?

Your comrade quip is a little OTT, but my point is seriously made. If contracterisation is good enough for messing and PAYD good enough to feed our toms why cant Cos and Senior Officers bite the same bullet?
 
#9
Outstanding said:
But every CO already has a Landrover sitting doing nothing. It may not be as convenient or smart, but it would probably prevent much misuse.
Every CO has an FFR allocated. As an ex-RSO I would not want a particularly expensive piece of kit that is not best suited for most Staff Car journeys to be used. To extend this point, should we return to driving troops everywhere in 4T TCVs? I'm sure the guys would appreciate the trooping buses being replaced with a Bedford!

What would wrong with GOC being driven in a small car - does big car equal big man in your eyes or is the job what matters?
No, but there should be some allowance for seniority. In addition to the specific duties of the officer involved.
Why shouldn't guys benfit from being abused like Carrot above? they have no ther means of recompense, yes of couirse they get all the false platitudes ("please nip orf and have a break - back at half six eh?") but they remain abused.
If Staff Car Drivers are being abused by way of illegal journeys the recompense is the Officer recieving the bill for use of vehicle and driver. If it is part of the official duties then it comes with the job.

What is important about who the passenger is? Do you drive differently?
No the comment reflects the fact that a good boss will allow for difficult and onerous workloads and give time off where possible. A bad boss will happily abuse his driver. A busy boss however is likely to have a busy driver!

Your comrade quip is a little OTT, but my point is seriously made. If contracterisation is good enough for messing and PAYD good enough to feed our toms why cant Cos and Senior Officers bite the same bullet?
In the same way that you say a CO has a Landrover they also have a driver on the units 8005. That is the soldier's job.
 
#10
Horridlittleman said:
If Staff Car Drivers are being abused by way of illegal journeys the recompense is the Officer recieving the bill for use of vehicle and driver. If it is part of the official duties then it comes with the job.
As a matter of fact, when Argentine Naval Officers were sent to the UK in the 1960's to ferry HMS "Warrior" (a Colossus class CVL, renamed later ARA "Independencia"), the CO (a full captain then) was presented with a staff car and a driver, "courtesy" of the RN.
After the first month, they received a bill for the car, the driver, the petrol...
On my last job (in the public sector, although not in the forces), over here, there were staff cars allegedly available 24/7. The drivers worked 24 hs shifts (day on/day ofs), but bosses were very careful not to use them in weekends unless necessary. On the other hand, it wasn´t uncomon to see the drivers running arrons in the cars for the "seniors" (one bloke even paid my balance at the bank...).. They liked the 24x24 watches (better than the "overtime hours" paying scheme), since in a normal day by 1930 they would be off to their homes, to remain on call until 2400, and then have a free day afterwards. As I said, you didn't call them on weekends save for official duties.
 
#11
It seems that this thread aimed at discussing the merits and de-merits of Senior Officers having both cars and drivers provided is becoing sidetracked onto the abuse of transport and the way it should be prevented. Of course if this transport was not provided the problem of abuse would not occur.

Perhaps a thorough investigation of staff acr use would identify who the abusers are. How many staff cars will be at the army navy match and how many individuals are actually "on duty"?
 
#12
Unit I was in had a similar problem old co had left and took on a job as a UKBC used to come over to the unit looking for lifts back to his Qtr back in another town about 60+ mile round trip. One day he pops in looking for a lift in a car or minibus OC told him only lift avasilable was in a Bedford CL he took the lift and we dropped him on a set of traffic lights..OC made it be known that if he came again to give him a lift in one of the green fleet and only when it was off on detail...............he soon stopped looking for the free lift :wink:
 
#13
Senior officers are entitled to a car for a number of reasons. Job/Rank/hours worked etc. But you must also remember that there is a security issue as well there would be greater publicity coo (probably spelt wrong) than a senior officer being taken out by your local branch of Al-Queda. As for the abuse angle, We know that it happens and we also know the CoC will not say anything, as they will be more than likley be told to wind their necks in.
 
#14
Mate, how does a staff car make a CO safer then?

Is it because he has a tough driver (normal lightweight RLC female (although they dont exist!!))
Is it because they car is always clean nad polished with passenger in the back?
Is it because anyone who is watching can suss out what is and whi is not a staff car qucker than they can say Sallam malaikum?

I dont think you argument is good.
 
#15
i done the staff car course so i could come back on the advance party from telic 6 i went out there on it so why not!!!!!

i covered the job for the week and that was enough for me and him i reckon dont think he likes iron maiden and slayer

but hey

i took all the perks for that week as well

like taking the car home to my pad (fair enough you have to be up early to pick him up and my msq had a garage so security was no major problem

and dropping him off in the morning doing any quick jobs the mt details nco needed doing which he couldnt provide the duty driver for

rest of the time i sat on my arse at home looking at internet porn until the set time he had given me or rang to say he wanted to go home

plus our staff car was a knackered vectra shagged turbo and smelled of dog

may be a flashy car but there abused when the comanding officer rings you at 7 pm and says i need to be at wellington barracks in central london by 7.30 pm so there abused definatly

and they did come from lex defence most lex cars are shagged unless there ordered in from civvy agencys

and i kept the car clean where as the bloke i covered for didnt, mind you worth using his change draw/ashtray to whip it through the car wash for him!
 
#16
I still think its a little odd that a small piece of Army-specific military law makes officers in the Army require a driver whenever they want to pop somewhere whereas in the RN and RAF officers are considered capable of driving their own vehicles.

Barmy.
 
#17
TheHelpfulStacker said:
I still think its a little odd that a small piece of Army-specific military law makes officers in the Army require a driver whenever they want to pop somewhere whereas in the RN and RAF officers are considered capable of driving their own vehicles.

Barmy.
Not strictly true, depends on the Officer!
 
#18
TheHelpfulStacker said:
I still think its a little odd that a small piece of Army-specific military law makes officers in the Army require a driver whenever they want to pop somewhere whereas in the RN and RAF officers are considered capable of driving their own vehicles.

Barmy.
I drive a Rover 75 for a 2*, but also cover upwards and sideways. Personal journeys are a no-no, if they want to attend private functions, then they pay for it themselves - this is to do with insurance as far as I am concerned. And being told to "use the bus lane, it's OK because I'll tell the police that I ordered you to" will not work when the flashing blues come up from behind! Being a driver means that we do every official function, including weekends and evenings, which can be a pain, but if we can't cover, then an oppo does, or FSL at a push. By the same token, if the Boss is not here, then nor am I!

Not all COs have flashy cars - 1SL has just returned his Freelander, and CINC is driven in an old(ish) estate because it's more practical. Our Rovers tend to be 02 reg, unless you are really putting some mileage on in which case you get a renewal every 85K miles. If I have a big trip to make then I tend to "break" the car with a strange knocking sound which gets me something more comfortable for the longer journeys from Lex White Fleet....

We do encourage self-sufficiency, but sometimes it makes more sense to use a driver (working in the backseat which means that I develop a deaf left ear sometimes!)

Don't forget that you can also put in claims (1771/C30) for long days, but time and a half is not coming any time soon. There are perks, which we all know about, but money is not one of them!
 
#19
PompeySailor said:
I drive a Rover 75 for a 2*, {snip}

Our Rovers tend to be 02 reg, unless you are really putting some mileage on in which case you get a renewal every 85K miles.
so what are the new replacements to be following the demise of Rover? Or has the MOD bought a cheap job lot that will keep our Senior officers in best of british for years to come?
 
#20
Not sure. Most of the replacements I get are Mercs, Saab 93s, etc. I think they are staying with current stock and recycling, but I have heard rumours of the Skoda and Toyota being used. The Boss wants a Wolf (and I wouldn't mind either!), but apparently they are not 2* vehicles!
 

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