St. Alban - alternative to St. George?

#1
This post was prompted by a point made in a different thread.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2252738,00.html

At first I couldn't believe it. The argument that St. Alban was real person and was actually British are in his favour as opposed to the mythical St. George who I think was supposed to be Greek/Turkish (?)

However, the reasoning that St. George is too 'militaristic' and 'potentially offensive to Muslims' immediately put me off any sympathies I may have had towards the proposal!

No doubt St. Alban was a great bloke, but somehow I don't think his image embodies the fighting spirit of the English. Not sure how the Irish, Scots and Welsh feel about their respective patron saints and whether they embody the spirit of their nations.

If this gets any further, drastic action may be called for!! Besides, I can't see myself waving a blue flag with a yellow saltire. Far too close to the flag of St. Andrew in my opinion!! 8O

THE Church of England will debate making St Alban an alternative patron saint because critics claim St George is too militaristic, potentially offensive to Muslims — and foreign.
Supporters of the change, to be unveiled in a General Synod motion this week, claim Alban may be more appropriate not only because he was real while George may be mythical, but because of his self-sacrifice.

Alban was a 4th century martyr who was put to death after hiding a Christian priest from the Romans in what is now the Hertfordshire city named after him.

The proposal may dismay many England fans, who have been flying George’s banner in support of their football team. The flag of St Alban would be a diagonal yellow cross on a blue background.

Philip Chester, vicar of St Matthew’s, Westminster, who is gathering support for his private member’s motion, called the choice of George, who according to legend was a Roman cavalryman from what is now Turkey, “dotty”.

He added: “We are not at all sure George even existed . . . but we are sure St Alban is a real figure. What’s more, he lived in this country.”

Chester’s motion, which needs the signatures of 100 synod members before it is debated formally, calls on Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury, “to acknowledge St Alban as the patron saint of England.”

Williams appeared cautious last week. “I think St Alban is irreplaceable in the history of English Christianity. Perhaps we ought to raise his profile because it’s the beginning of the church in this country with martyrdom, wisdom and courage,” he said.

George has been England’s leading saint since knights brought his legend back from the holy land in the Middle Ages and he was adopted by Edward III as patron of the Order of the Garter in 1348.

Some modern vicars, however, shy away from marking his feast day because they dislike his association with the violence of the crusades against the Islamic world.

David Stancliffe, Bishop of Salisbury, said: “There was a time when the image of St George associated with belligerence was helpful, particularly in our imperial past. But I think there’s been a change and now we want to honour holiness.”

Anglican traditionalists have claimed that a statement by Rowan Williams intended to reunite the church has opened the way for them to set up their own “third province” within the Church of England.
Williams was trying to heal the schism in the Anglican communion over gay priests when he said last week there was a “need for local churches to work for ordered and mutual respectful separation”.
 
#2
He added: “We are not at all sure George even existed
He must have existed. Does Philip Chester know of somebody else who slew the dragon? I bet he doesn't.
 
#3
CPH or Copenhagen, head city of Daneland is home to..wait for it.....St. Albans, Anglican church, being The English or British Church, designated for and by the British Embassy as the place for the practicing Ex-Pats and British Community in Daneland as well as for any other Anglicans in need. Situated in central CPH close to the harbours and located in Churchill Park close by the Danes Resistance museum (a mini - micro IWM) and surrounded by the expected numerous obligatory statues of the famous also of warriors and a very special statue or bust of a real modern warrior, a fighting young man a somewhat "special" Dane - Major Anders (Andy) Lassens VC. MC.+2bars of the SAS. A fitting location and surroundings for a fitting name representant of the British. Even though Admiral Lord Horatio Nelsen actually bombarded the whole of that area and vicinity during the battle of CPH...... Timing again......Us British...!
 
#4
hell we might aswel have a muslim martyr on there!?!? that wouldnt offend anyone would it?!?!

ARRSEHOLES!! too militaristic? look at our own history! we are constantly scrapping!

saint george has been our patron saint for ages then all of a sudden we are trying our best not to offend muslims. again!

im sure muslims do nothing to try and avoid offending non muslims. catching a plane and fighting thier own armed forces offends me deeply. aswell as the minority of brainwashed dicks who believe spontaniously combusting on public transport is good for thier god. if you are going to blow up... do it on your own. in a field or something.

im not racist... i hate everyone. this is my viewpoint and im damn well entitled to it
 
#5
I dont think muslims care about st george one way or the other pc bollocks someone upset at show of english nationlism imho.
 

Auld-Yin

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#6
St George is too militaristic, potentially offensive to Muslims — and foreign.
Militaristic - I thought everyone and their dog was in those days as there was no standing army

Offensive to Muslims - has anyone asked the Muslims?

Foreign - and the Big Yin - JC - was not exactly British either IIRC.

What a load of crap. I liked Mrs Thatcher's approach to this which went along the lines of, when asked by Sheik Whoever when would he hear the Muzzeins call over London, Mrs T replied, when she can hear Church Bells in Riyadh.
 
#7
What the feck is going on in this country? I cannot believe the erosion of national pride and history. I suppose that as we are no longer in the world cup it will be a capital offence to fly a St George flag(again). Fecking softies are completely ruining this country. I agree that we should be fairly inclusive but only up to a point,but it is now at the point of stupidity.


Rant complete.
 
#9
The only people offended by the flag flying are ultra liberals who see offence in anything and everything. T|hey think that others would be offended, when in all honesty they couldnt give a fcuk
 
#11
billyruffian said:
What the feck is going on in this country? I cannot believe the erosion of national pride and history. I suppose that as we are no longer in the world cup it will be a capital offence to fly a St George flag(again). Fecking softies are completely ruining this country. I agree that we should be fairly inclusive but only up to a point,but it is now at the point of stupidity.
Seconded. Too much bloody time on their hands and nothing better to do than interfere in something that does not require it.

I just wonder how many people take this change on if it were to happen.
 
#12
The so called "Cross of St George" is actually the flag of Alba, a city Piedmont in Italy, which is a great deal older than the "English" nation (or even the concept of "English")! Alessandria in Piedmont also has a similar flag

</P>
"Cymru am byth! Fe Godwn ni eto! "
 
#14
We could have a green flag with arabic script on it, then none of the of Muslims living in England (3.1% of the population) would be upset. Then we can ignore the 94% of Christians or non-religious English population who are quite happy with what we've got at the moment.

Absolutely barking mad :x
 
#15
So Phillip Chester's motion needs 100 Synod members bofeore it can be discussed, is there anywhere where the rest of us can vote against his move?

This is barking, Auld-Yin is quite right JC wans't exactly born in Essex I don't think he ever visited here either, does that mean we kick him out of all the churches?
 
#16
MightyAntar said:
So Phillip Chester's motion needs 100 Synod members bofeore it can be discussed, is there anywhere where the rest of us can vote against his move?

This is barking, Auld-Yin is quite right JC wans't exactly born in Essex I don't think he ever visited here either, does that mean we kick him out of all the churches?
Contact your CofE vicar and tell him all about it. If he's not on General Synod, he'll know who is and should pass on your comments. Contact him often so he doesn't forget!

By the way, there's a legend that JC did visit, as sung in William Blake's hymn "Jerusalem".

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
...
Come to think of it, this hymn gets a bit militaristic...

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
...
People think he was mad...tossers!
 
#20
Edward the Confessor was our Patron Saint until Edward III changed it to St George. It helped that Richard I had had a vision of him in Palestine during the Crusades...
 

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