SS Screwed Up and Then Hid The Fact

#2
let be fair , they can't be everywhere at once, there isn't enough bods about.

as an IRA terrorist once said when IRA missions were being stopped and arrested "You can be lucky many times, we only have to be lucky once"
 
#3
Couldn't be bothered to watch it, after all how hard can it be?

10 years Malaya, 30 odd years NI...............Seems like it's a piece of piss to me.
 
#4
FFS, like I said on the other thread, if they didn't consider these cunts as a threat, then what DID they consider as a threat?

For all we know, it was the lesser of multiple evils, with any number of outcomes, like breathing VX for example.

The boys have done all they can, a good result.
 
#5
Friend of mine works for Scotland Yard on anti-terrorism. He told me that some 15,000 UK citizens went to camps in Afghanistan or Pakistan for training. Of course many came back and just got on with their lives, but a percentage remain committed jihadists. Several hundred, in fact. Of these, maybe 2-300 are planning or talking about 'mission' and a few dozen actually preparing them. MI5 and Plod only have the resources to monitor the last group and some of the 2-300 who are 'thinking about it'.

Incidentally the UK governments policyup to a few years ago of letting these fcukers base themselves in the UK so long as they only caused trouble abroad was an absolute disgrace.
 
#6
Praetorian said:
FFS, like I said on the other thread, if they didn't consider these cunts as a threat, then what DID they consider as a threat?

For all we know, it was the lesser of multiple evils, with any number of outcomes, like breathing VX for example.

The boys have done all they can, a good result.
There were 50 people who associated with Khyam and MI5 subsequently divided them up into those who were essential targets and those who were desirable. Because the indications were that Khan was only supplying funds He went into the latter grouping.

I agree with Yourself and so many on the 'Result' thread that it was one hell of a result
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#7
Watching this, not finished, but the 'named and listed' thing rings true with me. The SS obviously know millions of names, they obviously knew SK's name, but they have procedures about flags going up (i.e. multiple flags from various sources) and files being opened and shelved. If all the flags went up via one investigation to which they seemed peripheral, its more than possible their files/names were 'shelved' as inactive.

Now if there were flags going up from multiple sources (i.e. in Leeds, via SIS operatives in Pakistan etc.) and the files stayed on the shelves without becoming active and without their names 'listed'...well....that would call for tinfoil all round.

I was chatting with someone today, and I'm sure the Millbank surveillance system is now up to C21st standards; if they haven't got the system properly wired with up to date technology, Big Brother is not doing its job.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#8
Just watched the Chairman of the Int. and Security Committee, what a banana. Doesn't anyone brief these people on procedures and jargon before they get appointed. I'll bet he completely misunderstood what the SS said to him in the first instance, so it's hardly suprising that it looks like the SS 'misled' people. Its not like the SS didn't know what they were providing/revealing in the current case :roll:
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#10
I have this feeling that its going to be easier rather than harder...just so long as they don't let their new toys do all the work and still put to use some old fashioned spookery....
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#11
Please - on a point of order Madam Chairthing - stop using those initials for the Security Service or Box or MI5 or whatever you want to call them....for a lot of people SS means only one thing - the Nazi Schutz Staffeln.


And if you have even a vague idea of 20th century history, nobody in Britain comes remotely close to the SS....which is why Messrs Siddique and co kept breathing as long as they did....and why the C.300 wannabe jihadis mentioned above still have a heartbeat.


Le Chevre
 
#13
I'm just quite happy to say thank you to the SiS for doing their job! And their current result.

Everybody seems very quick to blame 7/7 on SiS especially the victims families. We all seem to forget that it was actually the terrorists who blew up and not the SiS forcing them to. Hindsight is always 20/20 and im sure the guys who were doing the anaylsis att the time are now kicking themselves for missing the link, but its not like they deliberately go and bomb london. They had a mission brief and it seems they were following it and with a good result at the end of it.

What good will another enquiry do?

OS
 
#14
Oneshot said:
I'm just quite happy to say thank you to the SiS for doing their job! And their current result.

Everybody seems very quick to blame 7/7 on SiS especially the victims families. We all seem to forget that it was actually the terrorists who blew up and not the SiS forcing them to. Hindsight is always 20/20 and im sure the guys who were doing the anaylsis att the time are now kicking themselves for missing the link, but its not like they deliberately go and bomb london. They had a mission brief and it seems they were following it and with a good result at the end of it.

What good will another enquiry do?

OS
Are you getting confused between the SIS and the SS (non-Gryff Rhys Jones variety)?

I don't seem to recall any of the 7/7 blame being laid at the FCO door.... all the sh1t rolled downhill (or down river) to the Home Office.
 
#15
The ITV blamefest last night 2000-2030 was doing its best to put the Security Service in the dock , it seemed to me. Cue various bereaved relatives being asked "Do you feel that MI5 should have done more?" Unsurpisingly, they answered "Yes".

However you can guarantee that the makers of this excremental programme would be the first to scream "Human rights" if the Security Service or other agencies put the level of surveillance necessary to watch over every suspect.

That cnut Jeremy Vine is about to discuss this matter on Radio 2, I imagine I'll be screaming at the radio any minute now...
 
#16
Goatman said:
Please - on a point of order Madam Chairthing - stop using those initials for the Security Service or Box or MI5 or whatever you want to call them....for a lot of people SS means only one thing - the Nazi Schutz Staffeln.


And if you have even a vague idea of 20th century history, nobody in Britain comes remotely close to the SS....which is why Messrs Siddique and co kept breathing as long as they did....and why the C.300 wannabe jihadis mentioned above still have a heartbeat.


Le Chevre
Good comment!

Litotes
 
#17
People need to realise a couple of things when commenting on this case.
1. Security Service have a finite number of resources to monitor these people. It is not possible to investigate every individual that the primary target comes into contact with. This is primarily a function of the resources available to them, be it financial, linguistic support or just not having enough skilled operators to conduct the surveillance.
2. The Security Services operate under a legal frame work (as they should) which imposes constraints upon them. They do not just pick individuals at random or because there is some tenuous link to the prime target they have to abide by the legislation laid down by the Government we elected (you did vote didn't you). This includes but is not exclusive to The Human Rights Act (HRA), Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA) both of which require (in virtually all cases) warrantry signed by the Secretary of State.

So as with all these things it is not as simple as the SUN would like us all to believe.
 
#18
I detest the way that bereaved relatives are regarded as the ultimate arbiters on the way things should be conducted. The very fact that they lost a close relative in the 7/7 bombings means that they can no longer have any objectivity in this debate.

The Security Service, just like any other government department, has limited resources and cannot afford to follow every associate of every suspect under surveillance. They have to make a decision and they decided that MSK and his mate were not terrorists. At no point during the surveillance did they show terrorist inclinations, merely an interest in embezzlement and possible armed robbery, all of which could be dismissed as bravado with no real substance. A public enquiry will not help, we need to trust that the Security Service has our best interests at heart, because they do.
 
#19
old_n_fat said:
People need to realise a couple of things when commenting on this case.
1. Security Service have a finite number of resources to monitor these people. It is not possible to investigate every individual that the primary target comes into contact with. This is primarily a function of the resources available to them, be it financial, linguistic support or just not having enough skilled operators to conduct the surveillance.
True, as was stated on panorama last night, to follow one person for 24hrs takes a minimum of 20 people. The Thames House Surveillance teams would need to another same sized building just to house themselves if they were to put 24hr surveillance on everyone the terrorists came into contact with. I say well done guys and gals, you stopped a major terrorist plot and then got the suspects convicted. That counts for a lot.

The only people the parents and loved ones of those who died on 7/7 need to blame are the terrorists and the people helping them, not the people who are trying to stop this sh1t. The only reason they want a government department to be cupable, is so they can claim compensation. Why is it that people nowadays say "I am hurting (emotionally or physically), somebody is going to pay"

Sorry for your loss, but stop being so bloody mercenary about it!

Cynical I know, but that is just the way I am.

Ish
 
#20
Call me cynical but it's just another case of labour trying to divert attention away from their own cock ups.
 
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