Srebrenica - 10th anniversary

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#21
Ah yes, the US intervention was undoubtedly one of the most underhand, acts of attempting to disguise military activities from alleged allies that I've ever encountered. As a result of their activities in Bosnia, and the 'Black ATO' farce of Kosovo, I have ever since been exceptionally wary of the US.

In comparison, I have considerable respect for the French military; largely because of what they put up with and the way which they stood up to the Serbs and US.
Regards
MM
 
#23
Magic_Mushroom said:
At the time I was spending most of my life flying AWACS missions over Bosnia. I remember the period as exceptionally frustrating and regularly had to listen to ground forces requesting CAS, the CAS assets saying they could see the BSA tanks/vehicles/arty, but being unable to do anything because we couldn't get weapons release authority from the UN Secretary General himself. That request would often take hours to be actioned via troops/aircraft - AWACS/ABCCC - CAOC at Vicenzia - diplomats - UN HQ - Boutros Gali and back again.

I particularly remember one utterly sickening incident when some French UN peacekeepers ended up getting killed by the BSA despite the CAS assets (UK Jags and USMC FA-18Ds if I remember correctly) being able to see clearly what was going on. It ranks as probably the most appallingly frustrating moment of my career. Even heard one of the poor bastards get killed as he was talking to us.

Srebrenica was similar. More robust CAS ROE could possibly have overcome the fact that the BSA outgunned most of the UN ground forces. The summer of 95 I seem to remember was a very pleasant one and there were certainly plenty of nice targets out there. The results of Op DELIBERATE FORCE during Aug 95 showed the effect that aggressive CAS and AI could achieve against the Serbs.

Note to self: never let the UN dictate the ROE.

Regards,
MM
Was that the infamous incidence of someone getting an answerphone message in Sarajevo at a critical time during the incident when they tried to ask for CAS clearance?
 
#24
Recently forme head of Bosnian Serbs Radovan Karadzic was sentenced to 40 year in the jail.
Let's look at the part of the ICTY judgment that relates to Srebrenica.
http://www.icty.org/x/cases/karadzic/tjug/en/160324_judgement.pdf
Srebrenica component is described in Volume IV from p.2030 to p. 2451.
I propose using the ICTY judgement as the only source of information to discuss the findings related to Srebrenica.
I beg to avoid emotions comments that could be made here
Karadzic Guilty Of War Crimes | Army Rumour Service
Let's have a serious discussion.
All quotes are from the document I have mentioned (from the ICTY judgement)
4974. Thus, even after the “main demilitarisation” was completed immediately after the 1993 cease-fire, the Muslim Forces in Srebrenica still had access to light arms, heavy machine guns, anti-tank weapons, and mortars.
So in fact Muslim forces in Srebrenica were not disarmed. Moreover, there were being constantly supplying. The Bosnian Serbs refered to...
4985. ...several instances in which weapons were found in aid convoys, and by asserting that UNPROFOR and UNHCR were involved in organising the delivery of weapons to Bosnian Muslims.
Note, that they are findings of the ICTY. How weapons were used by the Muslims?
4993. ...The Muslim Forces in Srebrenica carried out continuous reconnaissance and sabotage activities against VRS positions around the enclaves of Srebrenica and Žepa. In October 1994, the Muslim Forces in Srebrenica carried out sabotage attacks in VRS territory along the Srebrenica–Konjević Polje, Cerska and Modrica axes. Late in the fall of 1994, they began planning and carrying out actions aimed at linking up with the ABiH in Tuzla. Despite the demilitarisation agreement, the Muslim Forces in Srebrenica continued to obtain arms and open fire on VRS lines. Further, ABiH helicopters flew in violation of the no-fly zone.
So it was 'demilitarised zone' only by name.
5000. That month [June 1995], the ABiH 2nd Corps ordered the Muslim Forces in Srebrenica to conduct raids out of the Srebrenica enclave for the primary purpose of engaging VRS forces in the area, in order to prevent them from being transferred to Sarajevo. During this period, members of the Muslim Forces in Srebrenica were seen openly carrying weapons and seemed less concerned about their weapons being confiscated by DutchBat.
5002. Meanwhile, units of the Muslim Forces in Srebrenica were carrying out co-ordinated sabotage actions deep within the Drina Corps territory. On 26 June 1995, the Muslim Forces in Srebrenica attacked the Main Staff Headquarters at Crna Rijeka, carried out a further operation seven kilometres away against the 65th Protection Regiment’s tank company, and attacked the Serb village of Višnjica, located five kilometres west of the Srebrenica enclave.
So storm of Srebrenica was inevitable. The Serbs captured Srebrenica and some cases of unlawful killing took place.
5032. Generally, the Bosnian Serb units encountered little resistance as they approached and then entered Srebrenica town.... As the units neared the centre of town, an able-bodied man appeared, and although he declared that he was not a member of the ABiH and had no problems with Bosnian Serbs, 10th Sabotage Detachment Commander Milorad Pelemiš ordered another Bosnian Serb soldier to slit the man’s throat, which the soldier did.
Women, children and the old were transported by buses to Muslims controlled territory. As for able men...
5036. ...able-bodied men set out on foot through the woods, afraid that they would be killed if they went with their families...
5037. During the night between 11 and 12 July, the group which had assembled in Šušnjari began to depart in a northwesterly direction towards Tuzla. At the entrance of Buljim forest, the group, which was comprised of 10,000 to 15,000 people, most of whom were men and boys between the ages of 16 and 65, formed a column...
It was armed column. Meanwhile, Bosnian Serbs had only one demand to surrender all weapons.
5068. Mladić told the Bosnian Muslim representatives that he wanted to help them... Mladić ... demanded that ABiH soldiers surrender their weapons. He stated that upon compliance with this demand, the Bosnian Muslim civilian population “may choose to stay in the territory or, if so you wish, go wherever you want”
5069. The Bosnian Muslim representatives requested “free passage for able-bodied men because, allegedly they are unarmed and they are not in contact with their army in the woods”
So just surrender all arms and go anywhere. But it hadn't happened. Thus women, children and the old were allowed to abandon Srebrenica. Muslim males were detained. But how many?
5109. As noted above, Bosnian Muslim men and boys were separated by members of the Bosnian Serb Forces and taken to the White House...approximately 300 to 500 men and boys were separated, amounting to between 600 and 700 in two days.
What had happened with Muslim males detained in the White House?
5117. Starting in the afternoon of 12 July and continuing throughout 13 July, while the transportation of women, children, and the elderly on buses was in progress, the men detained at the White House were taken out, boarded onto buses, and transported to Bratunac...
 
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