Sqn 2ICs, not employed as Ops Officers - a concern for all?

What ever happened to the old role of the squadron 2IC. Previously they were also the Ops Officer. They were well qualified and could hold their own in the Ops environment. Now it appears that a lot of young Lieutenants are posted in on promotion to Captain and are instantly employed in G1 jobs (CRs, manning etc) as 2ICs . Is this fair on them?

How can they evolve (be taught) to be Sqn Comds if they are employed in G1 roles, move on to Adjt roles, then get Comd of a Sqn if they have not worked in the Ops room?

I am not stating that they are incapable of commanding a Sqn, however, if after being an officer in the Corps they are posted as 2IC Sqn and they are only dealing with G1 issues (I know some will come back on the site and say they have many tasks) How can we expect them to take Comd in an Ops role if their whole career to date is based on (except some paperwork training) soldiers welfare and discipline (isn’t that what Tp Comds do – plus adv trg).

This surely is not the way ahead for the Corps. Where is their experience of writing warning order, exercise instruction Op orders etc (don’t tell me that comes at Staff College, surely that is just crossing the Ts and dotting the Is)

The under qualified 2IC (not their fault at this point) is currently trg the Tp Comds to look after troops, but only in G1 issues (at this point we, the Corps have not shown them how to be Ops Officers). The Tp Comds have little enough knowledge as it is of comms/Ops.

The end result it that more and more Tp SNCOs are responsible for CRs etc. The SSM is doing recces and discipline without giving the benefit of their wisdom to the 2IC. The Ops teams do not have the chance to share their experience with the 2IC and the Tp SNCOs are too caught up in paperwork dealing with G1 issues to effectively train the Tps. Why? Because the Sqn 2IC is too busy doing mid year appraisals, CRs, discipline matters etc.

End result = the Sqn Comd of the not too distant future is reacting to paperwork and reports pushed down from Land, IIP, SHEF, MCM Div, to ensure that all the deadlines are met for reporting, these are then pushed down to the Tps, and the Sqn 2IC is responsible for checking the content. Therefore the Sqn Comd of the future is left in the position where they think this is the norm.

I am sure that this is not relevant to all Sqn 2IC jobs across the Corps but is vastly becoming the norm for the majority.

MAJORity, funny word to end this on, especially when we are discussing the future Comds in the Corps, who are, in the vast majority of cases, being misemployed.

Misemployment is what these concerns are based on. If they are going to Comd in the future lets give them a fair crack of the whip and employ them as Sqn 2ICs/Ops Officers. Alternatively bring in another Captian as Ops Officers and not as G1 Clerks. Look forward to your thoughts.
:D 1920 - Like your gist on present day 2ics but is this not the future of the Corps if not the Army ? I spend most days tied to a computer filling in forms and returns. I thought this was normal !!!!! Most 2ICs are in my eyes paperwork co-ordinators and originators of lots of paperwork !!!!!

There seems to be at all levels a lack of experience due to paper requirements to keep and write reports everytime a Siggy breathes !! More time on the shop floor for all ranks and in the field (more than 9 days ?!!!) would be far better to sort out our SOPs and for officers and alike to gain experience.

Sadly I am dreaming as the reality is budgets,IIP and Human Rights Act etc etc. :wink: Must go now as have ration return to bang in !!!
I agree with the point that many 2ICs are misemployed, as many in the Corps are going straight from Tp Comd to these appointments. My own recent experience of three 2ICs was good - they had all had at least 3 units behind them before they came into the fore, and did not try to micromanage Mid-years (especially common now) and CRs.

In the current era, there are too many Junior Capts around and not enough jobs; this creates competition for a) jobs and b) conversions of commissions which is no bad thing. It also gives young officers the chance to go and do something other than another RD job, which in light of the new LTOS is no bad thing; you are looking at 8-11 years until first look at Major, so what is the rush?

There is a great argument about 2IC vs Sqn OpsO insofar as one is a technical post and one isn't. Bearing in mind that the only technical training that officers in the Corps receive is either at a) Shrivenham b) Troop Commanders' Course (where nobody really gives a shit) or c) CISM cse, is this distinction valid? Officers will always be in a position where they rely on Yeoman and Foreman for technical advice, so do they need their own <specific> technical expertise?

There is a great argument about 2IC vs Sqn OpsO insofar as one is a technical post and one isn't
Cant argue with that, however! How many officers get to the post of Adjt and miss/train/are appointed in other posts, then go up one rank (and yes they have deserved to) and come out in charge of posts they may not be suitably trained for, and experiencedin. The main point is, and you have covered it, they need to be appointed in the Squadron Ops Officer role to grow as an Officer. If not appointed in this role, and are appointed as Squadron 2ICs then they need a second tour as a Squadone 2IC. Somehow (although I think this would be a good career path) time does not allow this, does it?

Remember a career is something a car does before it skids of the road you are on and hits a tree!
In a world of perfectness everyone would go into a job they were trained for however as we all know that is not always the case. Its not just officers who end up in jobs they may not be suitable or experienced enough to handle. There are quite a few SNCOs who throught no fault of their own end up this way as well. I would hope that people with more experience would rally round and help them. Again that would be in a perfect work however this is very rare as human nature is to see others fail and then pick the bones !!!!

Todays army is different to perhaps say 15 years ago. Siggys expect to be LCpls within 2 or 3 years and full Cpls within in 5 or they think they have been mismanaged !!!!! I expect it is the same with the officer ranks. Some will be promoted early and there is nothing we can do really but rally round and try to assist them as best as possible if not for them then to stop their Sqn from being labelled crap just because of bad admin !!!!

PS My career must have skidded after being bust from LCpl !!! Can anyone remember any LCpls being bust nowadays !!!!!

Somehow (although I think this would be a good career path) time does not allow this, does it?
I think that time on the new Length of Service Terms of Service does allow officers postings as both OpsO and 2IC in one 'career', or any combination of the two. :p


Siggys expect to be LCpls within 2 or 3 years and full Cpls within in 5 or they think they have been mismanaged !!!!!
I couldn't agree more - some need to realise they that need more development outside of the scope of their own expectations. :roll:

I expect it is the same with the officer ranks. Some will be promoted early
Not quite; depends if they're a grad or non-grad, but it is predictable promotion up until Maj. 8O


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