Spy charges pit security against privacy

#1
In a country where privacy is an almost sacred right, this latest scandal after a newspaper report suggested the US government is running a surveillance programme has explosive potential because it reaches into the home of every American.

President Bush has defended the secret wiretapping of al-Qaeda suspects and their associates without court warrants, but these latest revelations suggests tens of millions of innocent Americans are being caught up in the surveillance net.

USA Today claims that after 9/11, the National Security Agency (NSA) asked all the major phone companies for access to their records of all calls.

An anonymous source told the paper the agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4763799.stm

"An anonymous source" carries no credibility. However, how far are the US Government prepared to go?
 
#2
PartTimePongo said:
In a country where privacy is an almost sacred right, this latest scandal after a newspaper report suggested the US government is running a surveillance programme has explosive potential because it reaches into the home of every American.

President Bush has defended the secret wiretapping of al-Qaeda suspects and their associates without court warrants, but these latest revelations suggests tens of millions of innocent Americans are being caught up in the surveillance net.

USA Today claims that after 9/11, the National Security Agency (NSA) asked all the major phone companies for access to their records of all calls.

An anonymous source told the paper the agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4763799.stm

"An anonymous source" carries no credibility. However, how far are the US Government prepared to go?
Well Box have access to all ISP's trunking equipment!
 
#3
So, how is this any different to Echelon?
 
#4
sandmanfez said:
So, how is this any different to Echelon?
Echelon, whats that, it dont exist. Neither does that big golf ball dome place called Menwith Hill where the NSA are stationed :lol:

 
#5
PartTimePongo said:
In a country where privacy is an almost sacred right, this latest scandal after a newspaper report suggested the US government is running a surveillance programme has explosive potential because it reaches into the home of every American.

President Bush has defended the secret wiretapping of al-Qaeda suspects and their associates without court warrants, but these latest revelations suggests tens of millions of innocent Americans are being caught up in the surveillance net.

USA Today claims that after 9/11, the National Security Agency (NSA) asked all the major phone companies for access to their records of all calls.

An anonymous source told the paper the agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4763799.stm

"An anonymous source" carries no credibility. However, how far are the US Government prepared to go?

Surely this is a dog bites man story-are people surprised that the NSA are doing this? or that there is acknowledgement by the US Government that they are doing this?
 
#6
india-juliet said:
sandmanfez said:
So, how is this any different to Echelon?
Echelon, whats that, it dont exist. Neither does that big golf ball dome place called Menwith Hill where the NSA are stationed :lol:

Oh, I see, I didnt realise we were still peddling that line. Its easy to lose touch once you go rogue. :D


[marq=down]uranium
anthrax
kalashnikov[/marq]
 
#7
PTP wrote:
However, how far are the US Government prepared to go?
By the look of it very far. How big would this database have to be exactly?

Every call made in the US? According to the CIA, the US has 295,734,134 people, let us assume each one makes just one call a day, every day for a year. That would be a mighty big excell spreadsheet wouldn't it? And for what?
 
#8
Thread edited.

PTP
 
#9
Oh dear, are we not alllowed to have a bit of humour in forums like current affairs then?. I see the "Humour" threads have been removed. Shame the one copyrighting an actual BBC logo has not been removed, I think that would have far more serious consequences than us just cracking a joke!!.
 
#10
What BBC copyrighted logo is this?



I've no objection to humour , especially in threads that have already developed. I will however edit out or move pointless and non-contributory attempts at 'humour' in the early stages of thread development.

Hijacking a thread and trashing it in it's early stages isn't humour, especially when the serious contributions are getting lost.

It's Current Affairs. As it says on the front, it's the "Serious' bit.
 
#11
PartTimePongo said:
No , but hijacking a thread and trashing it in it's early stages isn't.

I've no objection to humour , especially in threads that have already developed. I will however edit out or move pointless and non-contributory attempts at 'humour' in the early stages of thread development.

It's Current Affairs. As it says on the front, it's the "Serious' bit.
Then may I suggest the BBC template that has been edited on a thread be removed for copyright issues!. Im very supprised a MOD did not pick up on this.
 
#12
I suspect the BBC template was copied from another source known for it's spoofs. Enough BBC personnel of all shades use this website, some even contribute. I am sure if they have a problem with it, they will contact us.
 
#13
chocolate_frog said:
PTP wrote:
However, how far are the US Government prepared to go?
By the look of it very far. How big would this database have to be exactly?
The system is not designed to record every message, only those that contain certain words and phrases. Those messages are then filtered out for special attention. Obviously, the vast majority are innocuous and disregarded. However, just occasionally, something crops up that warrants further investigation, in which case, details are passed to the relevant agency.
 
#14
Slightly related to the thread, but is it true or just an urban myth that if I were to make a telephone call, send a text or e- mail containing the words Bomb/ Kill/ Assasinate/ President, that all my future calls would be entered on a data base somewhere. I myself suspect it's bollox but others think it's true. :?
 
#15
Private_Pike said:
Slightly related to the thread, but is it true or just an urban myth that if I were to make a telephone call, send a text or e- mail containing the words Bomb/ Kill/ Assasinate/ President, that all my future calls would be entered on a data base somewhere. I myself suspect it's bollox but others think it's true. :?
Each call/e-mail/fax/telex is dealt with on a seperate basis. Assuming that each message is innocent, no further action would be taken, after all, many people will use key trigger words and phrases without any cause for alarm. However, if a suspicious pattern starts to evolve, individuals may warrant extra attention.
 
#16
sandmanfez said:
Private_Pike said:
Slightly related to the thread, but is it true or just an urban myth that if I were to make a telephone call, send a text or e- mail containing the words Bomb/ Kill/ Assasinate/ President, that all my future calls would be entered on a data base somewhere. I myself suspect it's bollox but others think it's true. :?
Each call/e-mail/fax/telex is dealt with on a seperate basis. Assuming that each message is innocent, no further action would be taken, after all, many people will use key trigger words and phrases without any cause for alarm. However, if a suspicious pattern starts to evolve, individuals may warrant extra attention.
I believe they call it spider webbing ; you have a suspect, you want to know who the suspect has called/who calls the suspect,and who they've called,and so on. Basically,you end up with a picture that resembles a spiders web. At least that's what CNN say.
 
#17
PartTimePongo said:
In a country where privacy is an almost sacred right, this latest scandal after a newspaper report suggested the US government is running a surveillance programme has explosive potential because it reaches into the home of every American.

President Bush has defended the secret wiretapping of al-Qaeda suspects and their associates without court warrants, but these latest revelations suggests tens of millions of innocent Americans are being caught up in the surveillance net.

USA Today claims that after 9/11, the National Security Agency (NSA) asked all the major phone companies for access to their records of all calls.

An anonymous source told the paper the agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within the nation's borders.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4763799.stm

"An anonymous source" carries no credibility. However, how far are the US Government prepared to go?
The claim that calls are not being monitored or recorded is probably only partially true, as in false. Calls will be recorded and analysed and no doubt certain buzzwords will trigger alarm bells somewhere. So Elmer from Wisconsin calls Ricky from Texas.

R Hi Elmer, how's it hanging?
E Hi Ricky, its going a bomb
R How's the wife?
E Her cell count is low
R Bummer, what's she doing about it?
E She's seeing a nice Muslim doctor
R When did she find out about it?
E She went out to the bin laden with trash, just collapsed
R How's the car?
E Just bought new alloys, the Detonator series
R How do they look?
E Real cool, coated in a form of plastic, explosive looks though
R How's the flying going?
E I've been too tired to fly, just crashed out
R Sheer tiredness?
E It's been so sunny but the weather's shite now
R What about that financial scandal in New York?
E It doesn't tally, ban the lot of them
R Got to go cache you later
E Love to Kelly, shame about her mother's suicide, bummer eh?

A simple conversation that will get Elmer and Ricky a visit some time later.
Welcome to the US! Welcome to paranoia!
 
#18
Personally, I'm surprised that there's such an uproar now. Didn't every American understand that this is exactly what the USA PATRIOT Act allowed for?

I think I answered my own question.
 
#19
All forms of comms are picked up arn't they? Even writing this post will be scanned by echelon if I'm not mistaken. As long as there's no Durka Durka, Islam Jihad it should be ok though.
 
#20
sandmanfez said:
Each call/e-mail/fax/telex is dealt with on a seperate basis. Assuming that each message is innocent, no further action would be taken, after all, many people will use key trigger words and phrases without any cause for alarm. However, if a suspicious pattern starts to evolve, individuals may warrant extra attention.
What makes you the expert on this subject? How do we know that you aren't just repeating drivel from yet another unreliable source on the internet?
 

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