SPS OFFICE/MIDDLE MANAGEMENT

#1
I would lik to open a discussion on the above topic;

Ar we missing the boat on formalised MM for SPS SNCOs?

While we in the Corp are formally trained in specific Task/Role there seems to be a void in the formal training on how to effectivelly run an administration centre. The first question many may have asked when they put up their third was,"Where did all this paper come from?" I have the feeling that the Corps depends too much on the Individual's traits as a SNCO to grade him as an effective manager. We have a unique roll in the management chain that cannot be covered by an All Arms 'Fix bayonet and follow me lads', and while I think that the Rank Structure of Civil Servants and the Combat Estimate make for good bedtime reading I believe we should receive a formalised package to allow us to not only fully understand our positions and responsabilities within the office environment but give a chance to normalise the way we do business. With the forthcoming changes in our role (JPA,I Admin) I want to be able to provide my staff with the benefit of acredited management and to my superiors a service that is based (and graded) on recognised training and qualifications.

In the Business Environment outside the wire great emphasis is placed on formalised training and recognised practices for their middle management and resources provided to allow for personal developement.

I propose that the Corp recognise the need for this specific role training and allow for attendance at Workshops/Training Periods without having to use our SLC or ELC.

Comment?
 
#2
Moosaca
I have the feeling that the Corps depends too much on the Individual's traits as a SNCO to grade him as an effective manager. We have a unique roll in the management chain that cannot be covered by an All Arms 'Fix bayonet and follow me lads', and while I think that the Rank Structure of Civil Servants and the Combat Estimate make for good bedtime reading
I'm only a few years past retirement and a number of those were spent as a 3 day/week consultant so my experience is almost valid. There are a number of companies well advanced in their management training but as a full-time served SNCO one will almost certainly be recruited purely for that experience. My first senior position in industry came about purely because the organisational review guys told them to "Find a Army Warrant Officer" as a sort of executive review of his report. It was that sort of personal involvement in leading from the front that was sought, Other than dealing with them, I have no real experience of Civil Servants but their life and authority was very circumscribed.
 
#3
hey i hope you can help me im about to join agc sps and iv heard a rumour that the corp is disbanding in a couple of years does any one know if this is true?
 
#4
I wish it were true, god knows what is going to happen when JPA comes in. Self service is a great idea but obviously it won't happen fully if you are in Germany.

Back to more work with less people, quality idea that.
 
#6
I wouldnt worry to much about the size of the AGC being reduced or even disbanded. Speaking to RN & RAF there will still be plenty of work to go round when JPA goes live for us!!
 
#7
I think I can smell the rotting flesh of old dying animals, or is that change setting in?? Get used to it people and embrace the future!!
 
#8
Interesting points raised. First, Moosaca, whilst I don't disagree with your idea, they will always say that CLM is formalised Management Training. Why should the SPS get specific training for free and not any other cap badge? There will always be a need to strike a balance on any training between Management Training and Technical Training. You may be a good manager, but can you cut the mustard technically? Oh, and sort your spelling out!

Anjib, the Corps is not disbanding.

Daylight.... not sure about you, bue we are in Germany and will have DII(F) by May. Self service on its way.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#9
Does a manager really need to be able to cut the mustard technically? I don't think that he/she does. They may need to have a working knowledge of what it is that their staff do and they need to listen to those who are technically astute, but there's no requirement for the manager to be able to do the job(s) of his/her staff.

My understanding is/was that CLM was progressive managment training and that the WOs course was pitched at Middle Managment level?
 
#10
Can confirm what Biscuits_AB says. In my own case I was in charge of some 60 people who did everything needed to make a high-tech office block afloat and running 24/7. The range and depth of knowledge was so wide that no one man could have taken it all on board. What was expected of me was to see what manuals were needed, get them approved, written, introduced and thereafter complied with but retaining the ability to modify them in daily routines and over-ride them in a real emergency. I was also expected to do all this with a certain style so as to attract and retain the support of other departmental managers. Major projects required a hand-on control to stick with timings and resolve conflicts. See if that fits being a WOI?
 
#11
nikki said:
I think I can smell the rotting flesh of old dying animals, or is that change setting in?? Get used to it people and embrace the future!!
Who's read 'Who moved my cheese' then?
 
#13
You may have DII(F) by May, but as far as I was aware there are not enought o go round for self service.

What is the go live date for the Army?

March sometime, or have I not been paying attention :oops:
 
#14
JPA (at IOC) Go Live is 19 Mar 07.
All units in Germany are supposed to have DII(F) by FOC which is Jul 07. However, the DII(F) programme is slipping and we've already been asked to see how many extra DII(C) machines we will need to run JPA at FOC if DII(F) is late in several barracks.

According to my G6 contact this is a complete waste of time as there is no money left in the pot to buy a few extra terminals that will only be used for a few months.

Best option would appear to be to delay FOC of JPA until Oct 07 when we are pretty certain that DII(F) will be in everywhere.
 
#15
I thought the plan was, Yes DII(F) is the next step in Hardware, however JPA can run on most systems with RLI. OK this Self Service by 'Proxy' is, to me, another carefully planned Disastr Plan. We will, as a Corps, still be responsible for the little darlings for months/years to come. That is a fact. Regardless of the Financial implications of do we get more terminals, do we get the gouchy new machines with 17 inch monitors is irelivant. The practices of the Corps will remain. We will be doing more, with less, for less and the world will believe the deception. The WO2's job spec willl explode and your Non Public can be run by a LCpl, cos the new system is SOOOOOOOOOOO easy.

When will they wake up? I believe in the cause but not in the effect. I sometimes have to B-Slap the middle management I serve to remind them that this beast is coming and that they will have to take a bigger bite of the pooh sandwich - to little effect of course. I don't want to put my head down and simply grab what I can while I can. Anyone else want to raise the Red Flag??

Sorry, Sat night and a few cheap beers.
 

Auld-Yin

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#16
SPS - Middle Management!

This I think is the crux of the matter. SPS now act fully as an HR Dept in a public service organisation, I am currently with such an organisation. HR are making decisions well above their role, i.e. they are deciding how, who and what should be recruited. The manager says "We have conducted a review of this area of work and need this post". HR say "Computer says No".

HR are not Management, they are support - "I say again" not management, and the sooner that message filters "up" (in their minds) the better.
 
#18
I would like to pass comment but decided that 3 tapes were enough in my beloved old corps and decided to transfer to R Signals as an IS Engr. Fella's, ladies - IS in the R Signals is the way fwd and i propose you jump ship to as your all sinking fast. If you don't - Good luck you will all need it.
 
#19
Auld-Yin said:
SPS - Middle Management!

This I think is the crux of the matter. SPS now act fully as an HR Dept in a public service organisation, ... HR are not Management, they are support - "I say again" not management, and the sooner that message filters "up" (in their minds) the better.
Auld-Yin,

you make a fair point, but I don't think Moosaca was claiming that SPS were part of the executive management - I understood his point to be about 'office-management' (i.e. support) and detachment-management (i.e. management of junior clerks).

SPS and HR are not entirely analogous - we have no say in recruiting or contracts to name but two of the most prominent HR roles, whilst many SPS functions would be carried out by seperate finance departments in other public service organisations.

It is a shame that there is no forum in which SPS personnel can constructively discuss matters of professional interest - but then I suppose it is in no-ones interest if the SPS were to actualy work at improving the service they provide :roll:

Pay_Mistri
 

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