Speeding fines

Discussion in 'Finance, Property, Law' started by chrisg46, May 20, 2010.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. chrisg46

    chrisg46 LE Book Reviewer

    Looking for a bit of advice here...

    My old man is panicking a bit because in the last 4 days, my dad has received 4 speeding tickets for going at 34, 36 & 38 in a 30 zone. He is panicking because he drives for a living, and losing his licence could mean losing the house.

    He has driven past this one particular camera dozens of times before and since these three days in April with never a problem before, although he is convincing himself that more tickets must be on the way.

    Personally, i think there are mitigating circumstances as following
    1) The speeds were not excessive, and the camera is at the bottom of a steep hill, making it harder to control speed of car. It is also not far from where the limit changes from 40 to 30.
    2) These are the first speeding tickets he has receivd in 40 years, and has an unblemished record, speeding, criminal or otherwise. At worst, his credit rating might not be great!
    3) He went past this camera literally dozens of time before with no issues.
    4) He feels that if he was going at 38, then he wouldnt have been able to make the sharp corner just after the camera.

    With the above taken into account, i am not convinced that the potential punishment would not fit the crime - loss of licence = loss of job = loss of house.
    However, i am not a judge, and therefore my opinion does not count for a lot :)
    I know this isnt a military question, but i know that numerous coppers, traffic experts lurk here, and wander if anyone has any advice for what can be done/ questions to ask etc. Neither he nor i think he should be let off, but want any punishment to be just & proportionate..

    For interest, the camera in question is on the A346 in Wiltshire, just north of marlborough. It is not in an urban area, and is just before a temp road built to bypass a bridge under repair. Historically it is a fast road and i think the camera was put there to ensure people slow down for the diversion.

    Thanks for any advice in advance :)
  2. One of our drivers at work got caught by the same camera twice in the sameday, the court did not accept any mitigation but she was given a fixed penalty for on offence and allowed to dothe Drivers Humiliation Course for the other.
    Doesn't help much but I doubt your father is going to get any sympathy from the magistrates I'm afraid.

    Best advice I can offer is get hime to see a solicitor sharpish, going down the fixed penalty route will probably see him on one rehab course and 9 points.
    Was he driving his own vehicle or works?
    One common method of dodging some points is to have a willing relative admit to driving on one of the occasions, if they have a clean licence they will probably get the optionof doing the course rather than the points too.
    Not that I would recomend that as it would be illegal, but from what I gather the Police seldom question it as there is no way of proving it one way or another.

    I note you say April, the NIP must be served in 14 days by the Police unless there is good reason why they haven't. If the NIP was posted to him outside the 14 days without a legitimate reason then they aren't valid.
  3. Seems a bit odd that he got one for 34mph. Home Office guidance is Limit + 10% + 2, i.e in a 30mph limit, 35mph would be the trigger for a fine.

    Of course, guidance is just that, it's not a rule.

    Check the details, your dad may be lucky and escape on a technicality, though there's less opportunity for a slip of the pen with a fixed camera than with a mobile one.
  4. msr

    msr LE

  5. You can try the laywer route and get 9 points and a speed awareness course or the put them in the bin and deny all knowledge :)

    As for
    Good luck.
  6. I was on a speed awareness course with a lass who was caught doing 32 in a 30. I was only going 39 :)
  7. TheIronDuke

    TheIronDuke LE Book Reviewer

    Mitigation Shmitigation. The Beak wont listen, and quite right too. Mitigation is begging, so dont do it.

    Babylon aint got time or the resources to fart about, so make them prove it was your old Dad. Demand the photo's. Then demand hi-res photos. Then say you dont recognise the driver. Then say maybe the driver was wearing a wig. Then say space aliens were seen near the speed camera. Sicken them from the off and see who gets sick of the game first.

    Or tell your Dad to pay his fine. Beacuse lets face it, the old boy was breaking the law.
  8. Don't take the internet advice. Tell him to go and seek legal advice in person or over the phone at the soonest. First 30mins of a solicitors time is generally free. Go and use it.

  9. Doesn't work. I've tried it.
    All they will say is that it is the registred owners responsiblity to know who was driving, end of.
    The only thing I do know of working is giving two names of probable drivers and sending a cheque for the fixed penalty along with both licences. They cannot put points on both. I don't know if that loophole has been closed now or not.
  10. Best advice you'll get I suspect :D

  11. Hell fire, 40 years of Blemish free driving and he gets 4 tickets in four days. I would be asking why in 40 years he racks up points now. Is it because of new job, new car etc does he drive for a living and the company has put more pressure on him to get the job done.

    I would claim hardship if he was to get a ban after 40 years of hassle free motoring then in the space of 4 days he could lose his job, house livelihood.
  12. She should have refused then. Construction and Use Regulations allow for a 10% error in Speedos, therefore, no action at all upto 33 in a 30.

    Then there is the ACPO guidelines of +2 before any action.

    Loads of people say they got caught at 31, 32 , 33 etc but it's all bollox!
  13. Just remembered something that may help. Need to check with a solicitor as the law may have changed over the years but a long time ago I was in court for two offences both carrying a minimum of 6 points.
    I wasn't banned because at the time of both offences I had a clean licence and therefor totting up doesn't apply (or didn't, like I say the law may have changed since). I sat on 12 points for 3 years but kept my licence.

    Worth checking with a solicitor.
  14. Dends of the Police Force, you are absolutely correct about the ACPO guidlines but they are exactly that, guidlines.
    North Wales Police have prosecuted many people at 32mph and were completely un-repentant about it.
    But that might have something to do with the Chief Constable who believed everyone who went 1mph over the limit should be prosecuted but heroine addicts should get free drugs.
  15. A few observations...

    s.172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 places a duty on the registered keeper to tell the authorities who was driving at a given time. Failure to do so without reasonable excuse = fine + 6 points. As an ex-prosecutor I would have considered the possibility of adding a charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice (unlikely though).

    Committing a number of driving offences at the same time (eg speeding and driving without insurance) doesn't (usually*) mean the points are added up - they run in parallel: 3 points for speeding and 6 points for not having insurance does not mean 9 points - you'd walk away with 6 plus a fine.

    Exceptional hardship and special reasons proofs are the only two routes out of getting a ban once guilt has been established, and (again generally speaking) loss of employment is not a reason to allow the accused to keep driving. If a ban effects other people eg employees of the accused would lose their jobs then that's different, but it's a one-shot excuse and can't be used again within three years.

    * the judge can, in exceptional circumstances, add them up but that is extremely rare.

    P.S. For anyone interested, this is the bible of road traffic law as far as Scottish lawyers are concerned:

    Wheatley's Road Traffic Law