Speed work - anyone else have comparable problems to me?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by MAD_FERRET, Oct 30, 2009.

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  1. Background: Male, 34 years old. 12 Stone in weight, running around 50 + /- 10 miles per week.

    I can comfortable run at 730 - 8minute mile pace over distance, recently completing the Berlin Marathon doing such a pace.So my endurance baseline if you will is good.

    However, my 10k run time l struggle to get under 45mins, no matter what method l train - fartlek, weighted endurance etc.

    PFT / BPFA / BFT (Whatever its called this week) around 10mins.

    I would really like to get my 10k under 40mins, and PFT back to around 930 or less.

    The problem l have is that my breathing and heart rate go of the scale when doing the shorter distances, lve tried Powerbreath with not much of a result. Ive had asthma testing, and came back negative.

    Does anyone else recognise this format, and how have you got around it?
  2. I think some people are naturally more suited to endurance than speed. I am similar, never been a racing snake but I can go on forever. The one thing that did improve my speed significantly was fartlek training. I managed to get my PFT down to 8.20 at one point and did a half marathon in about 1 hrs 20 min. Only thing was I ended up with horrendous knee pain which I found was result of an underlying medical condition I had.

    I would also say if you get the chance, join a running club, if you sprinting against someone you push yourself that little bit further and make that little bit more priogress each time.
  3. Knee pain? I know when l had a month 'f**k it, Fartlek' in a concerted effort to bring down the times l ended up having an MRI scan for 'chrondalcia Patella' (prob not spelt like that, lm an Engineer not a Surgeon) and it hurt like hell!

    And yes, lm definately better at distance. Strangely, l get a better PFT if l do the old mile and a half out, best effort back. The new one doesnt do it for me!
  5. Rather than relating speed at longer distances to short distance performance, have you tried breaking down your target distance and running that at target pace; ie, run 5 km at target pace and then build up incrementally from there?
  6. When you say breathing and heart rate go off the scale, do you know what your max is, and what percentage of you max you are at when you run short distances? Short distances are horrendous. If your max is 196 over 5k you can expect to be 177-185 and suffering like a dog the whole way. Best effort over 5k I wanted to lie down every second of it. Maybe your expectations of comfort are too high.
  7. I have heard of something similar.

    Say you want a 9 min pft.

    Run 400metres at a 1 min 30 s pace. Rest for a minute and go again. The idea being that you can complete all 6 repetitions at that pace with 1 minutes rest. When you can do that, you reduce the rest by say 10s each 400m repetition. Keep doing it until you're running the whole distance without needing to rest in order to keep the pace up.

    I know you can transfer the protocal over to longer distances. I would think with the longer distances, you could up it to 800m - 1 mile.

    edit- in regards to your HR, try and spend more time at a higher HR (around and above your lactate threshold). That doesn't have to be done just through running (but it helps).
  8. A previous coach of mine once prescribed a series of progressive intervals for me. I can't remember the exact detail but it went something like this:

    2 mins on, 6 mins off x 6
    3 mins on, 6 mins off x 6
    3 mins on, 5 mins off x 6
    4 mins on, 5 mins off x 6
    4 mins on, 4 mins off x 6
    5 mins on, 4 mins off x 6
    5 mins on, 3 mins off x 6
    6 mins on, 3 mins off x 6
    6 mins on, 2 mins off x 6
    7 mins on, 2 mins off x 6
    7 mins on, 1 min off x 6
    8 mins on, 1 min off x 6
    8 mins on, zero mins off x 6 (basically 1 x 48 min interval at target pace and duration).

    Warm up before and down after. On means @ race pace (c.93% of MHR), off means at tick over. Rest between sessions for min 24 hours or until RHR returns to normal. Break up with 1 x 4 hour recovery ride (<75% of MHR) and 1 x 2 hour endurance ride (80-85% of MHR) weekly.

    Obviously there are variations on the progressive theme which increases duration and-or intensity and/or reduces recovery time, and a programme should be designed with many factors in mind including especially individual robustness. Design your own.
  9. I was thinking about this, and (I think) there are two ways a small increase beyond a certain point should produce a big increase in heart rate and effort 1) you are close to your maximum anyway, 2) there's a lot of inefficiency in your running style when you get faster.

    1) can't be true (I think) - you'd know. So maybe you've got such an efficient shuffle at your normal pace that beyond that efficiency collapses and energy costs skyrocket for every small increase.

    You maybe need to acquire a "shuffle" at higher speeds.

    This extract is interesting - stuff on Clayton half way down.


    This of course is why so many apparently fit people find military fitness absolutely buggering - boots, awkward loads and slippy ground rob you of all the economy of movement that you've spent months building.
  10. Thanks for all the replies, lve read with interest other's experiences and shall try a few of those, now that l'm 'fully rested' after the weekend ;-)