Speed of Promotion in the Rifles

#1
I've had a good think on whether to start this topic or not. However, my curiosity has got the better of me.

Sjt Chris Reed has been the latest casualty in Helmand. I've read his colleagues comments on Defence Intranet and clearly he was a top bloke. However, this sentence caught my eye:

Although only 25 years of age, he was a highly experienced Territorial soldier, having joined the Rifle Volunteers in his beloved Plymouth in 2001.
Is it usual for someone to make Sjt after 7 years? Can you really gain the required knowledge in such a short time? I know we've had quite a few threads on the speed of promotion for Scalies, but this is even quicker.

Let's not turn this thread into another RIP one, nor start on the "you're disrespecting him" nonsense.

Cheers.
 
#2
StabTiffy2B said:
I've had a good think...

Although only 25 years of age, he was a highly experienced Territorial soldier, having joined the Rifle Volunteers in his beloved Plymouth in 2001.
Is it usual for someone to make Sjt after 4 years?

Cheers.

I've had a good think about this. 2001 was 8 years ago.
 
#4
I've had a good think about this. 2001 was 8 years ago.
Well spotted. Proof reading is for winners. :oops:

Original Post edited.
 
#5
Promotion is down to the individual one doing the write courses to qualify, and two being a fu**ing good egg all round. This guy obviously met the criteria (read the full MOD page regarding kind words said by TA and Regs, he was well liked and good at his job)
 
#6
StabTiffy2B

The average time in service before promotion to Sjt (across the Infantry, not just The Rifles) is 13.5 years according to the MS/RCMO and my anecdotal observation suggests that The Rifles are typical in this. It is certainly possible to make Sjt in 7-8 years, but it is far from the usual experience especially given the three courses that he had to have passed (by no means attendance only courses) to have been eligible. I would suggest that Sjt Reed's performance must have been consistently far above average and that he must have been an exceptional soldier.
 
#7
WhiteRabbit said:
StabTiffy2B

The average time in service before promotion to Sjt (across the Infantry, not just The Rifles) is 13.5 years according to the MS/RCMO and my anecdotal observation suggests that The Rifles are typical in this. It is certainly possible to make Sjt in 7-8 years, but it is far from the usual experience especially given the three courses that he had to have passed (by no means attendance only courses) to have been eligible. I would suggest that Sjt Reed's performance must have been consistently far above average and that he must have been an exceptional soldier.
My bold. Which appears to be the opinion of all of those who have made comments on the MOD page.

RIP a very good man.
 
#8
With the amount of tours one can do in a 7 or 8 year time frame i'm not surprised at this. At Chilwell I met a guy who was only 19 but had done a tour P coy and was a PTI and was about to get his second tape. There are some real fliers around and fair play to em. If you can pass the courses and have done the tours then why not?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#9
Possible? Yes.

Usual? No.

He must have passed his recruit course, PJNCO cadre, Section Commanders course and Pl Sgts course (or specialist weapons equivalent). He must have also had a strong recommend to promote in each SJAR, and picked up at first look each time as you usually require 2 SJARs in rank to promote.

He obviously had the capabilities to do well on the courses, and the SJARs written to reflect this. Whether he had the experience that someone with longer in each rank would have had is very much up to the individual concerned. It could be that in each of his 2 or so years in rank he crammed in every exercise possible, and therefore he had more experience than someone who had held the same rank for 5 years but only turned up for the jollies and the odd range day. Edit: His previous tour of Iraq answers this one in spades.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...rdAndPrivateJohanBothaKilledInAfghanistan.htm

Link above shows that it is also possible to be A/Sgt at 25 in the regular army, and do a bloody good job at it too.
 
#10
I don't want to get into defensive postings here, its an important issue but let's give Chris Reed some credit. I knew this man well and can add some subjective clarity.

He was undoubtedly an intelligent, talented and dedicated soldier who well deserved his rank. He consistently showed his capability, often in testing circumstances including an arduous deployemnt on TELIC. The trust in his capability is clearly demonstrated by the very pragmatic CO of 1 RIFLES, selecting him for OMLT tasking. Further testament is borne by the comments of RSM 1 RIFLES.

It might be worth mentioning that not only had he attended and done well on the mainstream promotion courses inc snr's but he had also crammed in SF Comd's - where his report reflected his ability - very high.

Admitedly, the timescale is quick in 'old money', but the pace or tempo of Ops, trg and the aggregate experience gained by a capabale and thrusting NCO can enable this rate of promotion.

The point is, in this day and age intelligent and very capable NCOs can gain the experience to hold this rank in this timescale.

Its something I think we'll see more of!

Territorials are sometimes deploying on a higher cycle rate than their regular counterparts!
 
#11
You're right about trying to make a comparison with the past. Times of high operational tempo always result in 'quick promotions'- the environment goes from 'career' to 'getting the best man in the job'. Think of the ages of Colonels and RSMs in the Second World War.

This applies to the TA especially. Let's face it, the TA is full of some remarkable people.
 
#12
I was under the impression that the minimum time served in ranks was: Pte - 6 months, LCpl - 2 years, Cpl - 5 years. Anything after that was on merit. So as has been mentioned before to get to Sgt (or Sjt) in 8 years is feasible but not usually possible.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
There is no minimum on service in each rank nor maximum, I knew some real fliers and some that could only fly after they left.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#14
ugly said:
There is no minimum on service in each rank nor maximum, I knew some real fliers and some that could only fly after they left.
You are now expected to have two reports in rank for consideration at a promotion board, although there are specific circumstances which can amend this.
 
#15
flamers11 said:
I don't want to get into defensive postings here, its an important issue but let's give Chris Reed some credit. I knew this man well and can add some subjective clarity.

He was undoubtedly an intelligent, talented and dedicated soldier who well deserved his rank. He consistently showed his capability, often in testing circumstances including an arduous deployemnt on TELIC. The trust in his capability is clearly demonstrated by the very pragmatic CO of 1 RIFLES, selecting him for OMLT tasking. Further testament is borne by the comments of RSM 1 RIFLES.

It might be worth mentioning that not only had he attended and done well on the mainstream promotion courses inc snr's but he had also crammed in SF Comd's - where his report reflected his ability - very high.

Admitedly, the timescale is quick in 'old money', but the pace or tempo of Ops, trg and the aggregate experience gained by a capabale and thrusting NCO can enable this rate of promotion.

The point is, in this day and age intelligent and very capable NCOs can gain the experience to hold this rank in this timescale.

Its something I think we'll see more of!

Territorials are sometimes deploying on a higher cycle rate than their regular counterparts!
He was no doubt an expceptional soldier, and RIP to him.

You weren't his OC, or in his CoC by any chance were you?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#16
Agreed with the last poster, this man was exceptional but dont forget that even 20 years ago someone could join the TA (which is really what this thread is about) with the right attitude, maturity and having the time to devote to the necessary training be a Lcpl by the end of a year even if it was only local.
I knew TA soldiers who with not much more than 18 months service at their first annual camp collecting cadre badges for sniping etc who could barely march up to the CO to collect his badge. Didnt stop him being a good soldier, the rough edges that 20 weeks at the depot would have rounded have to take a little more time to be done and definetly are totally dependant upon his seniors, his trg staff and his own dedication all of which deserve recognition.
 
#17
flamers11 said:
I don't want to get into defensive postings here, its an important issue but let's give Chris Reed some credit. I knew this man well and can add some subjective clarity.

He was undoubtedly an intelligent, talented and dedicated soldier who well deserved his rank. He consistently showed his capability, often in testing circumstances including an arduous deployemnt on TELIC. The trust in his capability is clearly demonstrated by the very pragmatic CO of 1 RIFLES, selecting him for OMLT tasking. Further testament is borne by the comments of RSM 1 RIFLES.

It might be worth mentioning that not only had he attended and done well on the mainstream promotion courses inc snr's but he had also crammed in SF Comd's - where his report reflected his ability - very high.

Admitedly, the timescale is quick in 'old money', but the pace or tempo of Ops, trg and the aggregate experience gained by a capabale and thrusting NCO can enable this rate of promotion.

The point is, in this day and age intelligent and very capable NCOs can gain the experience to hold this rank in this timescale.

Its something I think we'll see more of!

Territorials are sometimes deploying on a higher cycle rate than their regular counterparts!
Can I back up what flamers has said. Reedy was one of my best mates. He was also one of my riflemen and then one of my NCO's. He was by far the most promising young soldiers I have had the privelege to know.
He actually joined the TA in 2000, I have a Coy Photo from November 2000 where he is dressed in coveralls, marking him as a recruit in training (i.e. not yet issued any kit). He remained a Rifleman for a number of years, before he was sent on his PJNCO's Cadre. He deployed on Telic 4 (2004) as a L/Cpl, and on return attended SCBC, and was subsequently promoted. In 2007 he completed PSBC and SF Sect Comds. He was promoted to Sjt prior to going to Ganners for Herrick 9.
He was an extremely capable, thoughtful and decisive leader, he was also an utter gentleman, and earned an unprecedented amount of respect and friends. The Bn is a lesser place without him. Indeed, the lives of all who knew him will never be the same, better - for having known him, worse - for his loss.
He was promoted relativley quickly. But the Platoon in Plymouth is renowned throughout 6 Rifles for producing some top quality soldiers, his rise to Sjt was not unexpected. There have been quicker and there have obviously been slower. In Chris's case, he was, in terms of promotion, in the right place at the right time, with the right qulaifications and experience. Indeed, his posting to C Coy 1 Rifles OMLT team was because he was one of the most professional and dedicated soldiers in the Coy, he was also patient and compassionate. All quailites that are required when dealing with the ANA!
It was my absolute honour to call him my friend.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
There is really nothing more to add to that, thanks for sharing that with us, I dont often say that or do nice RIP stuff but he certainly is remembered as one of a kind and the Army will be worse off without him.
We all know exceptional soldiers who seemed capable of annything, some I knew as Ptes and some as WO's all those flyers certainly did well and from the COP in 1LI in the llate 80's many were promoted and at least 3 made major and 1 Lt Col having all been soldiers. It does happen and its great when they are recognised for it!
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top