Specials vs TA

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Forastero, Jul 27, 2012.

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  1. Forastero

    Forastero LE Moderator

    Genuine question, why can regular polis be TA but regular Servicemen can't be Specials? I realise the two elements are not the same and comparing like for like is not smart but I always hear tha it's the the 'conflict of interest' that prevents regular Servicemen from becoming Specials but that doesn't square with regular polis and the TA. Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
     
  2. Regular servicement can't be coppers probably because they can get dicked to go to wherever, for however long at next to no notice, thus leaving the police roster short handed.

    Called to a pub brawl in Aldershot/Catterick/Plymouth etc, they'd end up having to nick their own mates.
     
  3. Forastero

    Forastero LE Moderator

    Latter part doesn't really stack up, coppers will nick their own if they've been naughty boys?
     
  4. What WEP said; speshuls can roster themselves to accommodate STAB nights and exercises, you can't roster the next 'intervention' to accommodate speshul patrols.
     
  5. The question wasn't about Specials being TA, it was on about full timers being TA, but I can see where you are bout intervention, but then I know quite a few guys in the RN on second jobs who manage perfectly well.
     
  6. Ignore my last, fair one NM. Bit tired this morning, really should have RTFQ properly. Arrse!!!!
     
  7. I don't see why this should be the case to be honest. STABs have to meet a minimum commitment for bounty purposes, but outside of that there will be times a regular polis/STAB can't make drill nights or weekends because of work commitments.

    Flip the coin, and I really can't see any difference. A regular soldier/special should make a minimum commitment to patrol, I think it stands at about 4 hours per week at the minute although I'm willing to stand corrected. But that is really just to keep their abilities and knowledge up to date and current, and if they can't turn in for a few weeks, well the Old Bill can't really complain too much seeing as specials don't get paid at all, whereas STABs at least get paid for turning up. If they can't do any duties for an extended time due to ops, they'll at least have plenty of time to regain their skills competency on POTL etc, if they're that way inclined.

    I really don't see any reason why it couldn't work, and I reckon that Dibble would gladly take on a serving soldier knowing their availabilty for duty would be, shall we say 'irregular', but I reckon it's the Army which is proving to be the sticky wicket by refusing to allow it to happen.

    That's my thoughts on the matter anyway. You could always ask your CO anyway, put it in writing as a formal request like one of the old marriage request letters. The worst that could happen is he says no...
     
  8. I think the answer is quite simple; regular serviceman on call 24/7. Copper, rostered hours. You can figurevthevrest out yourself;)
     
  9. So coppers aren't on call 24/7 then? I must have imagined all those extra hours I put in during the little flashmob shopping spree last August. I have a rota, but that doesn't mean I rock up 5 minutes before my shifts and clock out bang on the hour at the end. I rarely, if ever, get away on time and have often been called in on my days off, usually to stand around outside some conference centre so some political fools can schmooze for the cameras, but sometimes for things a little bit more serious than that. Crazed, roided up, shotgun toting doormen manhunts, missing person searches, etc etc. Police are never off duty, so the saying goes.

    I also served in the regular Army, and for something like 80% of my time in green, I was effectively doing 8am-5pm hours, Monday to Friday. Rostered hours if you will. I could have quite easily served as a special in that time had I wanted to do so and it was allowed by the Army.

    Try not to let your sarcasm (or ego) get in the way of a serious point. I say again to the OP, if you're serious about it, put it in writing to your CO. He'll probably say no anyway, but that will be far more definitive for you than watching us all bicker about it on ARRSE.
     
  10. Even putting aside the on call 24/7 aside for a minute. Can you imagine having the army with full powers of arrest? In the present economic climate and given that the armed forces are the cheapish / convenient option for any problem that comes up.

    The police are hardly likely to be happy with this; they already have to fight a rear guard action against privatisation. I can just see some SO3 coming up with this as a role for the adaptive Bde’s the government would love it. Make all troops in the adaptive Bde’s Specials and when they are sitting around in Bks as there is not enough funding for them to do any meaning full training they can stag on as coppers.
    Can you imagine the number of vested interests this could threaten?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. And you did all that for free of course, no overtime or extra pay? The hours you quote for working green are normal working day, the army can tell you to carry on working outside of those hours whenever it wants, like say, when the fire or ambulance service goes on strike or say, just n return from theatre and G4S can't fulfil a contract for security and without any extra pay, time off or Spanish practises.
     
  12. Forastero

    Forastero LE Moderator

    Don't buy the 24/7 argument. Those deploying are fully aware of their commitments and the graduated levels of readiness are more than enough notice to warn off your relevant Units. If you really are one of those types that is literally on 5 mins NTM with no prior warning then I would seriously doubt they would be interested in being a Special. This is all tactical stuff, there has to be a strategic/policy decision as to why police can be TA but regulars can't be Specials.
     
  13. You've cracked the police already mate!

    (Well seniors, doubt anyone else gives a **** who turns up when you dial 999 as long as they've got a brief in their paw and a brain in their head).
     
  14. I hear what you're saying, and welcome some serious discussion on the matter. In answer to your question (if it was indeed a question rather than an observation), a special constable's power of arrest is not the same as a regular constable's powers. IIRC, whereas a regular constable is 'never off duty', a special constable can only be 'on duty' when called upon by their chief constable and therefore have their constable's power of arrest bestowed upon them. And those powers are only valid within their own force area, whereas a regular constable may use his powers anywhere in the UK (although Scotland going it's own way has made that last part a bit of a grey area north of the border). So a special for North Yorks (from Catterick) or Essex (Colchester) would have no powers to operate as specials in London or Birmingham for example.

    Of course, this is all just off the top of my head and I'll stand corrected on the details if anyone can say categorically different. It is an interesting scenerio you present though. It's just scary enough for some politico to put forward for further study!
     
  15. That would be novel.