Special Guy!

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#1
Have 1 x soldier in my gang who has been happy to take the shilling for the last few years.  He has terminated and is due out the end of July.  Under the current rules he has chosen not to deploy, although quite why this rule applies baffles me.  I was wondering how many different ideas my inf brethren could come up with to cause as much misery to this individual as can be achieved legally.
 
#2
How long has he served?

Has he deployed on operations before?

When did he terminate?
 
#3
He must have signed off last July as you need 12 months notice. Which is long before the latest US/UK/Iraq thing kicked off.

I don't think its right to berate him as he has made his decision for whatever reason and should be able to get on with it without and hassle.

I cant imagine that anyone would want him in their section anyway, if he has had enough of the Army let him go with the dignity that he deserves. After all we all leave at some point!
 
#4
Got to agree with Muttley on this one, unless he of course he PVRed just as the kack it the fan, but that seems unlikely if hers not due out yet

If he is mocking the other lads in a non gentlemanly fashion, ie like the fireman do saying were all going to die doing a job thats not for us etc then thats a different kettle of fish.

Is your dislike for this guy driven by something else, has he seen you in the shower and not been able to keep his mouth shut.

What do the rest of his section think, have they turned on him, are they happy that hes made his decision and stands by it, What kind of solduier is he, would he be an asset in theatre?
 
#5
Have no problem with him having terminated, or the fact that he is leaving the Army.  An awful lot of good soldiers do, and there is of course no bitterness when they go.

The problem I do have is that the other 5 soldiers who are in the same boat, have all seen it as their duty to trun out for whatever lies ahead, in the knowledge that they will be allowed out when their time is up (providing of course we aren't in the middle of a firefight).  It may well all be over by July in any case.

This individual does not see it as letting his mates down. As for Ops SAMA only.  Of course he is not chiding the rest of the boys a la firemen as you mention, the reason being that he would simply be killed and probably eaten too.

I am just surprised that with the current difficulties in manning, the policy has been made to give any choice in the matter whatsoever.  He still owes Liz six months of his life.  I am sure there are others out there who are apprehensive and not a little worried about an uncertain future, however they have no choice as to where they may or may not wish to serve.

I firmly believe that he is a lizard and a disgrace to my cap-badge.  If I (or most of the seniors) had their way he would be stripped of his Regt'l insignia.  
 
#6
I can see your point

Has he made arrangements for his future outside that will be hashed with a deployment, will he lose the chance of furthering his career outside. Is he married If so you can't blame him for putting himself first, probably the first time he done so since he joined.

It doesn't sound like an act of cowardice, if it is and its not in any doubt then granted crack him, but if hes just getting on with his life then leave him alone.

If he signed off seven months ago then he made his decision then, the goalposts shouldn't move just because of an Op. His duty now is to himself not to the crown

As for owing Liz another six months, can't agree with that I gave her 9 yrs and she never even sent me a leaving card.

I
 
#7
Leave the kid alone.  He's signed off - it is his right.  You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

There is no bar to terminating your service even at this point - we haven't quite got to the stage of forcing people in, or forcing them to stay once they're here.  If that day does come I would hope to see a few battalions wearing Turbans, dreadlocks and leather jackets before we start wasting our own.

Let the kid go, give him a break, he may well be back in 12 months.
 
#8
Still think most of you are missing the point.  There is no problem with terminating.  It's his yellow streak and unwilling to turn out with the rest of us, which I and an awful lot of my blokes find so offensive.

He is willing to draw the same pay as the rest of his section, yet not prepared to do the same job.  All I am suggesting is that he should have no choice whether to go or no.  He should serve his time alongside his mates is all.  As soon as his time is up he will be allowed to go, there is no argument there.

The fact remains, this will have no bearing on his life outside, he will get his pre-release and resettlement, and so wont be disadvantaged in that way.

I just strongly believe that as a member of Bn he should have to go, no questions.
 
#9
DM,

I understand. I believe you have two options:

One. He remains where he is until you go. This will cause him maximum suffering as he will not be enjoying the taunting that he will be getting from his fellow soldiers.

Two. You post him out, still on strength to you, to another unit.

If I was you and having had similar experiences, I would go for option 2. I have learnt over many years, prior to ops you do not want a distraction such as this. All bad apples must be ruthlessly cut out for the benefit of all. The last thing you want is him causing trouble, directly or indirectly which he may well do as he has nothing to lose now.

Use logic rather than emotion. Post him out and quickly !  :)
 
#10
No mate

Hes made his decision to leave, a decision that he is entitled to make. As for stripping him of his insignia etc which he worked just as hard as you did to gain is out of order.

Has he been on ops before, did he show any signs of cowardice there.

Are his mates going to find him a job if he misses this one.

Maybe he would go if you could gaurantee him that his 'Out date won't be affected, but you can't

I can't think of a quicker way to piss your guys off than with talk like that, well one perhaps, don't pay them. Hes a soldier not a prisoner.

If I was him and I read this, as soon as I was a civvy I'd be confronting you down town and showing you the actions of a coward.

Not aimed as a dig at you mate, not at all just my opinion. Am I a coward if I throw my brown envelope away or return it to sender with up yer Kyber written on it?
 
#11
if he wants to be a coward let him if he dont want to go will he be an asset or hinderence over there?

its his choice
 
#12
Quote I firmly believe that he is a lizard and a disgrace to my cap-badge.  If I (or most of the seniors) had their way he would be stripped of his Regt insignia.  Unquote

You are an Officer. Behave like one.  He is entitled to go. So be it. You have your opinions.

Putting him in all the shit jobs will only reinforce his opinion that he is in a bad organisation.

Put your self in his shoes, if you disagreed with a superior, and all you got was extra duties for showing moral courage.

Your assumptions about cowardice bare no relevance.

If he is a coward it is best he leaves, let him go, realising he has let his mates down and not a spiteful system.

An Ex Troop Sgt, Chris
 
#13
Am now somewhat confused.  But thanks for the suggestions.

First.  As I have stated, he will go when his time is up.  No arguments whatsoever.

Second.  Since when was there a choice as to whether we turn out for a duty (which as I understand, an operational tour is)?

I am somewhat surprised that anyone is given the choice whether to do their job or not.

As for logic not emotion.  Roger, but am somewhat angry and disappointed at this one, when there are those who continue to see it as their duty to earn their pay (as do most of us I suppose), and those who do not see it as appropriate.
 
#14
Dog Monkey,

I've looked at all your entries above, and now I'm confused !  The lad is getting released in July after signing off last year.  So the following would be the logical steps to him being released.

You can write off June (termination leave), write off May and most of April (resettlement/briefs/interviews, etc).  That leaves Feb, Mar and some of April.  Say he deploys next week to sandy surroundings, it won't be until late Feb until he and the rest of you are trained and ready for bullet dodging in Bagdaddy.  That leaves March for Ops, after which he departs the said sandy location in April for the start of resettlement/briefs/interviews, etc.

As I don't know you, please don't take the following the wrong way.  I think you still have that infantry mentality towards the younger element that has not enjoyed your years of knowledge and experience.  The lad made the decision last year to get out.  He’s built this up and up.  He’s probably made plans, maybe has job offers, maybe not.  If you’re an officer or SNCO, you surely must be thinking and planning out the months as I have done as above for this lad.  Then logical thinking would say, 'No point in having the bloke along'.  The next six months are the most important time of his Army career, because he’s leaving and stepping out into this wonderful life called civvie street.  He’s not being yellow.  He doesn't owe you or the lads, or Lizzie anything, he's already put his time in.  And he’s taken control of his life, probably for once in his Army career.  And your STILL trying to influence it !

Quote:  I do have is that the other 5 soldiers who are in the same boat, have all seen it as their duty to turn out for whatever lies ahead, in the knowledge that they will be allowed out when their time is up (providing of course we aren't in the middle of a firefight). Unquote.  Do you honestly think that if their time was as short as the special guys, then they'd continue with you?  GET REAL !!  

I think your expecting too much from this one person.  Don't lose your infantry mentality, but at the same time, start acting like a manger of men.   If you don't, the lads will start to (if not already) resent you.  There's nothing better then getting respect from the lads for who you are, not what you are.  

And constructive criticism is good for the soul.



PS, I've a banging hangover.  So aplogies for grammer and spelling above!!
 
#16
As for logic not emotion.  Roger, but am somewhat angry and disappointed at this one, when there are those who continue to see it as their duty to earn their pay (as do most of us I suppose), and those who do not see it as appropriate.
DM,

I strongly sympathise and it is right that you have such passion - otherwise you would not be where you are.

I repeat what I said before - ignore it and get rid of him quickly. You have more important things to worry about and should not be wasting time on this. Your soldiers will have no difficulty with this either; this soldier is not coming with you; therefore he should be posted away to sort his life out ASP.

The sooner he goes, the sooner all of you can concentrate on the matters in hand.  :)
 
#17
As for logic not emotion.  Roger, but am somewhat angry and disappointed at this one, when there are those who continue to see it as their duty to earn their pay (as do most of us I suppose), and those who do not see it as appropriate.

 Logged

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Personally I would be chomping at the bit if given the situation but it aint for all.

I actually like your sentiment, but it is best, to just get him into a remf job within the unit and outer the tp ASAP as he may effect others.

But it is his choice.

And yes given his situation, I would have thought he would have asked for an extension to stay with his mates during a time of crisis.

I extended my 9 years to complete a NI tour and ended up doing my 22.  That was my choice.

We do not all think the same way.

Regards Chris
 
#18
Glad I managed to clear things up.  And thanks for the posts.

Gunny, first, of course I have an Inf mentality,  where there's no sense there's no feeling and all that.  As for the other guys in the same boat, they did what I and the rest of their mates expected, and have signed an extension to cover the deployment.  This they have done on the understanding that I, and the rest of the chain of command, will do evry thing we can in order to achieve one of two things:

One, if it's all over by the time they would have been released, then their original date still stands, they get a bonus few months on pay to sort themselves out.

Two, if we've moved into post-coflict resolution, then see point one.

The only way they'd be held until their newer dates would be if we are still engaged in high intensity stuff.  Being that it's now Feb, and if things kick off, then let's say end of March - April, the chances of us having enough spares alone is likely to have made things 'tricky'.

This thread has been interesting with some surprising results.  But then differing opinion is what keeps this site alive so thanks to all who have contributed.
 
#19
Dog monkey,

Excellent debate, maybe more to come, but regardless what everyone and I has said, take care mate if and when you go over.  My taxi driver tonight (Manchester, guess the religion) has stated that Armageddon is literally weeks away (according to his bible), so please book me a place in Hell (next to some sweaty tart please).
 
#20
DM,

What did you decide do to with this soldier in the end ? You can't keep us on tender hooks and close the thread !  :)

Let us all know if you are having any other problems - there is a wealth of experience and knowledge in this forum as the posts show.
 
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