Spanish threaten to block Independent Scotland joining EU

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
Wee Eck will love this.

Spain could wield veto over Scotland's EU membership - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

Spain could wield veto over Scotland's EU membership

Spain is standing in the way of Scotland's ambitions to become an independent nation within the European Union because of fears that it could spark the break-up of the Spanish state.

Spanish officials have registered concerns with counterparts in the United Kingdom over the Scottish government's independence blueprint, senior Whitehall sources confirmed yesterday.

Spain has indicated it could block an independent Scotland's accession to the European Union, sources said. It has already refused to recognise Kosovo's existence as an independent state. Madrid fears such moves will encourage separatist ambitions in Spanish regions, particularly Catalonia and the Basque region. Spain's refusal to recognise Kosovo has frustrated the former Serbian province's ambitions to enter the union.
And some more detail (my bold).

A Spanish veto would undermine claims an independent Scotland could immediately operate as a viable state. Although Alex Salmond insists Scotland would be able to join the EU following a "yes" vote in a referendum, experts maintain membership would not come automatically.

An official House of Commons briefing paper on the subject points out decisions on membership must be agreed unanimously by all EU member states. It added: "It is worth considering, if there is a continuing UK, it would have a vote on an independent Scotland's accession application, as would other member states with their own internal regional independence issues, such as Spain."
Spain has every incentive to block an independent Scotland as it has several regions agitating for independence. England (if it wishes to play dirty) might also oppose Scotland's EU membership. And if Scotland is not a member of the EU, then the additional import tariffs will blow a hole through any financial plans an independent Scotland might have...

Wordsmith
 
#2
Well, well. An interesting development. Wonder what Braveheart Salmond will make of that.
 
#3
Wee Eck will love this.

Spain could wield veto over Scotland's EU membership - UK Politics - UK - The Independent



And some more detail (my bold).



Spain has every incentive to block an independent Scotland as it has several regions agitating for independence. England (if it wishes to play dirty) might also oppose Scotland's EU membership. And if Scotland is not a member of the EU, then the additional import tariffs will blow a hole through any financial plans an independent Scotland might have...

Wordsmith
If the English want to play dirty, they can blow the SNP's plans out of the water simply by insisting that Scotland become independent from England. This will cause a Pavlovian response among Scots, who are programmed on a genetic level to do the exact opposite of what the English want.

"You may give us Independence, but we'll never grant you...FREEDOM!!!":threaten:

If St John the Devine was'nt just out of his gourd on Magic Mushrooms, and the End of Days actually happens, millions of Scots will kick down the gates of Hell rather than share Heaven with the English.:twisted:
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
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#4
Surely, in the same vein, England would have to apply for membership as Great Britain/United Kingdom would be no more. Same rules apply, new country, new application and although England rarely plays by the rules and changes them to suit they had better start filling in the application form

Now many on here would see that as a bonus and would hope that Spain (and France) would veto England's entry, but it would be interesting to see how this pans out.
 
#5
Surely, in the same vein, England would have to apply for membership as Great Britain/United Kingdom would be no more. Same rules apply, new country, new application and although England rarely plays by the rules and changes them to suit they had better start filling in the application form

Now many on here would see that as a bonus and would hope that Spain (and France) would veto England's entry, but it would be interesting to see how this pans out.
Sounds like a win-win situation for England!
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#6
And if we stop Spanish fishing in our waters that'll be half their fleet out of work.

Difference here is that Scotland is a country not a region such as Basque or Catalonia.

This has been mentioned before but is it really a risk or just bluster and scaremongering from those who are pro-Union
 
#7
I would have thought the Whitehall mandarins would have gamed this one out already.

Spain, Italy, Austria and Denmark all have varying degrees of separatist movements.

The French may even get worried about their overseas departments (all in the EU) given the precedent last year set by the Dutch in the Caribbean.
 
#8
Surely, in the same vein, England would have to apply for membership as Great Britain/United Kingdom would be no more. Same rules apply, new country, new application and although England rarely plays by the rules and changes them to suit they had better start filling in the application form

Now many on here would see that as a bonus and would hope that Spain (and France) would veto England's entry, but it would be interesting to see how this pans out.
I think the EU logic of it is that the United Kingdom would still exist as England Northern Ireland and Wales and would still be a major EU player and that Scotland would be seen as a breakaway new Nation. Much like if Pays Basque were to become a separate Nation there would be no question that Spain would have to reapply.

I really can't see any EU Nation vetoing one of the few net contributors to the EU just when they need all the money they can get. What would be interesting would be to see what sort of a discount the reduced UK could carve out for itself.
 
#9
And if we stop Spanish fishing in our waters that'll be half their fleet out of work.

Difference here is that Scotland is a country not a region such as Basque or Catalonia.

This has been mentioned before but is it really a risk or just bluster and scaremongering from those who are pro-Union
I have put this link up on a previous thread, but I think it bears repetition.

Doubts over automatic EU entry for an independent Scotland - Politics - Scotsman.com


It pretty much answers all your points.

edit Meant to address that to , FF and Auld Yin,
 
#10
Why not allow the break up of the WHOLE of Europe in to the various nations, regions, etc. Then build it back up in a United States of Europe fashion...

There's 50 actual States in the USA and a few 'funnies' so it should be doable...

Scotland, Outer Islands, NI, Ireland, IoM, Wales, Cornwall, Yorkshire, Berwick, Merica, England, Channel Islands ... there's 12 just from the UK.
 
#11
I have put this link up on a previous thread, but I think it bears repetition.

Doubts over automatic EU entry for an independent Scotland - Politics - Scotsman.com


It pretty much answers all your points.

edit Meant to address that to , FF and Auld Yin,

I'm not convinced by the Human Rights argument but there are powerful economic arguments. The Scots argument that they are already members of the EU is wrong. They are a member as part of the UK, if they were to become independent then the number of nations in the EU would have to expand by one. That is why they might have to apply.

It is the time scale that may be the biggest problem. Even if the other EU countries voted to accept Scotland it may well take time. Why they would insist on Scotland adopting the Euro is lost on me given the current weaknesses and, since the original report is from 1999 I rather think that wont apply anymore.
 
#12
So let me get this straight.

1. If the UK wasn't a member of the EU, that would be A Good Thing and A Triumph for Democracy & Common Sense because it would be able to make decisions appropriate to its own circumstances without being over-ridden by the interests of France and Germany.

2. If Scotland wasn't a member of the EU that would be an utterly show-stopping disaster even though it would be able to make decisions appropriate to its own circumstances without being over-ridden by the interests of France and Germany.

Of course. It's all so clear now.
 
#13
So let me get this straight.

1. If the UK wasn't a member of the EU, that would be A Good Thing and A Triumph for Democracy & Common Sense because it would be able to make decisions appropriate to its own circumstances without being over-ridden by the interests of France and Germany.

2. If Scotland wasn't a member of the EU that would be an utterly show-stopping disaster even though it would be able to make decisions appropriate to its own circumstances without being over-ridden by the interests of France and Germany.

Of course. It's all so clear now.

Nothing at all to do with that. Salmond's case is built on the possibly false premise of automatic entry into the EU.

If Scotland has no desire to remain in the EU then there is no problem. No-one is suggesting that Scotland would fare and worse or any better than the rest of the UK outside of the EU.
 
#14
Why not allow the break up of the WHOLE of Europe in to the various nations, regions, etc. Then build it back up in a United States of Europe fashion...

There's 50 actual States in the USA and a few 'funnies' so it should be doable...

Scotland, Outer Islands, NI, Ireland, IoM, Wales, Cornwall, Yorkshire, Berwick, Merica, England, Channel Islands ... there's 12 just from the UK.

Funnily enough that's very similar to how the grand plan for a "Europe of the Regions" is supposed to work... Divide and Rule, something we should know about.

(Of course the Channel Isles and the Isle of Man aren't actually in the EU.)
 
#15
Nothing at all to do with that. Salmond's case is built on the possibly false premise of automatic entry into the EU.

If Scotland has no desire to remain in the EU then there is no problem. No-one is suggesting that Scotland would fare and worse or any better than the rest of the UK outside of the EU.
This line of arguement of 'who says we can't....' is starting to get a bit repetative. Noone knows how Scotland would fair as an independant country, but it would seem that a large portion of the SNP's vision for the future of an independant Scotland is based on naive assumptions which may not be borne out in the way that they are selling it to the Scottish people.
 
#16
Why they would insist on Scotland adopting the Euro is lost on me given the current weaknesses and, since the original report is from 1999 I rather think that wont apply anymore.
Yes it will, all EU members are expected to join the Euro. Plus if they don't, what currency would they use? Theoretically they could continue to use Sterling, but that would be a disaster for them, as all interest rate decisions would only take into account the circumstances best suited to the remainder of the UK Countries.
Adopting the euro - ECFIN - European Commission
 
#17
So let me get this straight.

1. If the UK wasn't a member of the EU, that would be A Good Thing and A Triumph for Democracy & Common Sense because it would be able to make decisions appropriate to its own circumstances without being over-ridden by the interests of France and Germany.

2. If Scotland wasn't a member of the EU that would be an utterly show-stopping disaster even though it would be able to make decisions appropriate to its own circumstances without being over-ridden by the interests of France and Germany.

Of course. It's all so clear now.

Seeing as Salmond is arguing his case for prosperity and independence on membership of the EU, yes that is pretty clear.

It also brings into question Salmond's entire economic plan for independence. His assumption of automatic continuance in the EU is apparently not a forgone conclusion.
 
#18
Yes it will, all EU members are expected to join the Euro. Plus if they don't, what currency would they use? Theoretically they could continue to use Sterling, but that would be a disaster for them, as all interest rate decisions would only take into account the circumstances best suited to the remainder of the UK Countries.
Adopting the euro - ECFIN - European Commission

I stand corrected. That would be a major decision for Scotland though, to join such a shakey currency with so many lame dogs in it. Would that be within Scotland's best interests, do you think?

I would have assumed that they would have preferred to use the Scottish Pound, an independent currency
 
#19
I stand corrected. That would be a major decision for Scotland though, to join such a shakey currency with so many lame dogs in it. Would that be within Scotland's best interests, do you think?

I would have assumed that they would have preferred to use the Scottish Pound, an independent currency
Scotland don't have a pound, they are allowed to print currency backed by the bank of England, it is a vanity issue. Salmond is very fond of making statements of "fact" but not saying how these "facts" would be possible or enforceable. Scotland will automatically become part of the EU (who says?), Scotland will continue to use Sterling (who says) Scotland will take 90% of the oil revenue but only 8% of the UK debt (who says?) are just a few examples, there are many more.

When the facts start to be put before the Scottish people the idea of becoming independent will actually focus their minds. That is why Salmond wants a third question (Devomax) put, because he knows that he is unlikely to get a yes vote to full independence. In my opinion it's very sad that the Scottish will turn down the independence option, because it means we face decades of whining from them, better they go and go quickly.
 
G

gladwda

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#20
And if we stop Spanish fishing in our waters that'll be half their fleet out of work.

Difference here is that Scotland is a country not a region such as Basque or Catalonia.

This has been mentioned before but is it really a risk or just bluster and scaremongering from those who are pro-Union
It's technically not a country - but a province. The UN does not recognise England, Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland as individual countries under a united kingdom. Much like it wouldn't recognise hawaii or new york or california as country under their union. We can call them countries to make us feel a bit more individual and different, but in the eyes of international law there's only one nation, and its provinces.
 

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