SPAMS 48........Iraqis 0

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Baddass, Nov 30, 2003.

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  1. Sky news just reported that the SPAMs have slotted 48 Iraqis who tried to ambush them. Nice one SPAMs (shame it took you so long to find out how to switch 'off' the safety catch!)
     
  2. Can we be sure that they were not innocent women and children or even other coalition forces, remember we are talking about the Americans here...! :twisted:
     
  3. Apparantly there was no A10 involvement! They took about 8 prisoners, so lets hope it's going to be a bigger result for them. They need a little morale boost before Krimbo.
     
  4. It was 46 - according to Sky.

    Chubby
     
  5. 'Bout time the buggers got somthing right.... if they were all 'real' targets, hat's off to them, if they weren't, hope it gives them a moral boost anyway.
     
  6. Just on BBC news 24, eye witnesses say it was between 20 and 30 Iraqi dead some of which were old people, kids and factory workers caught up in the septics 'random aimed shots'.
    loads of wounded civvies in hospital and houses riddled with 'panicking' yank bullet holes.
    local population said to be very angry, which is just what the yanks need in that already dodgy area.
    Bad weekend and all round month for the coalition.
    Sky news report just put the number of dead to 56.
     
  7. Just a little concerned at the return to Score keeping.

    Shades of the 5 O'clock follies?
     
  8. ViroBono

    ViroBono LE Moderator

    I wonder if Tony Bliar will be asking the Spams to hold a Bloody Sunday type enquiry?

    According to some Spam general on the news, they fired only 'aimed shots' - in which case they are either crap shots or buildings were shooting at them!
     
  9. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    From Turp - "Just on BBC news 24, eye witnesses say it was between 20 and 30 Iraqi dead some of which were old people, kids and factory workers caught up in the septics 'random aimed shots'.
    loads of wounded civvies in hospital and houses riddled with 'panicking' yank bullet holes.
    local population said to be very angry, which is just what the yanks need in that already dodgy area."

    Well, who is surprised - firstly, BBC news 24 is biased to the point of ridicule aginst us. Secondly, of course 'eyewitnesses' will say that - this is the Crossmaglewn of Iraq we're talking about, not Hampstead. Any 'eyewitnesses' (of course, once a tank/RPG battle starts, everyone comes out of their houses to look) are going to be anti-CF. These buggers had everything, as Saddam's tribal mates and relatives, now they've got nowt, and they don't like it. I can tell you tyhat where I am, the population LIKE us, and LOVE the Septics (they're not so keen on the Italians, however). They had nowt, now they have a chance of a decnt life.

    Sorry, ranting on about the BBC again, but they really are lying toads.[/quote]
     
  10. good reply there snowy, however, its now spread to Sky news, CNBC, CNN and Fox, new story is that they only actually killed 6, riddled buildings and vehicles though. Yanks may have now opened up a whole new can of shite on themselves.
    As you rightly said, that its the XMG of Iraq, and in NI some of the things that the Security forces did where actually the best recruiting device that PIRA ever had, is this latest incident going to have the same effect? lets hope not, last thing we want is to start taking Brit casuaties cos the septics havent discovered weapon sights yet.
     
  11. Prior to making judgements based on BBC, CNN, AFP, AP, Reuters, etc, read this:

    http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Special%20Reports%20Hack.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=92&rnd=758.0186504490642

    It's an e-mail from someone who actually participated in the action. It was taken from this:

    http://www.hackworth.com/

    TURP - I think your assumptions about future effect may be correct but the Iraqis of the area effected were already there anyway.

    What did you want the soldiers in the above e-mail to do? Disobey their orders? In combat?

    Well, guess what? Even in the awful Uncle Spam Army, they do what you do. They obey their orders.

    Sucks, doesn't it?

    It appears that the "septics" (quoting you) "have" (BBC, etc-style emphasis quotation marks) discovered their weapons sights all too well. It's not "panicked". It's not "random". More like "all inclusive".

    The difference between NI and Iraq might be more obvious from a viewpoint other than an OR (operating room). I recommend looking in to it. I know I do.
     
  12. I do look in to it, i havent always been a medic and worked in an operating theatre.
    but as you say, they were following orders, but those orders may well lead to the deaths of many more coalition troops in the very near future.
    Interesting point he made though about if the weapons fire came from an alley then then hosed the alley and surrounding buildings. Are these the carefully aimed shots that the US officer mentioned in the press release?
     
  13. Someone needs to stop this madness, these types of tactics are totally counter-productive.

    Having said that the spams never were the best at counter-insurgency ops were they. It seems that they haven't learnt anything from Vietnam other than the fact that the folks back home don't like body bags.

    Why are they not asking for advice from the UK contingent, seeing as we have a long history of participation in conter-insurgency ops and seem to have much more success with the "hearts & minds" approach to peace enforcement.

    I rest my case...
     
  14. TURP:
    Wasn’t taking a dig at you. From time to time I read posts on here that indicate that the writer is probably getting his news from one or limited sources only. Just checking. Lately, I don’t trust any of them (the “news” sources, that is).

    I know you're on to this but anyone who believes anything US military spokespeople say is making a mistake. "Carefully aimed shots" with a .50 cal, 25mm or M-19 on a moving vehicle? Obviously a person someone who hasn't ever tried it while being fired back at. At least the guy who wrote the article tried to get his troops to use some discretion.

    Why has it come to this? I don’t know. It hasn’t always been that way. I think the US military is so infected with the new morality of “spin” and lying-until-you-get-caught that they don’t what the f*ck they’re doing anymore. The whole sorry Jessica Lynch soap opera is a good example. OK, I won’t get started there. I’m just glad I’m not in this one. I have friends who are in-country over there and even their stories I take w/salt, one grain each.

    BTW, thank you for not making a “you stupid thick wanking spam” reply that I’ve been told is obligatory here. It's nice to have a conversation based on exchange of ideas.

    As to the action in question, I’m still wondering why, if this money convoy was so important, it was routed through any towns at all. I’ve never been to Iraq but have been in other desert areas. It seems it should have been easy to route around populated areas. I scratch my head and a little bubble comes out saying “Competency Problems?”

    Now here’s a fellow who is there and seems to want to do things the right way. I’m not sure he’s always right but I think he’s trying. He's an activated Florida National Guardsman, in the 1/124th NG Infantry.
    http://iraqnow.blogspot.com/2003_11_01_iraqnow_archive.html#106910019984721635

    Personally, I would like to see the British Army take over some of the bad places, perhaps Tikrit. Not as a “put your money where your mouth is” sort of thing but rather to see if there is actually hope for some sort of finish. To see if there is a workable way and if British methods will work in a place where the local people have much greater access and predisposition to use weapons than NI.

    It may be that there are not enough of your people there. There’s not enough of the right kind of ours. When I see picture captions denoting the soldier shown on a night raid as being from the x Battalion of the xx Field Artillery, it makes me wonder. I know the US Army doesn’t train these people to conduct counter-insurgency.

    5-mile:
    A couple of things:
    1. I saw Gen. Giap on TV once, laughing when he told an American news type that the US had beaten him militarily on the battlefield but that in the end, the Viets had won the political battle in the US. Very true, and once again, the media seems to be trying to help out. Recently, another of their higher-ups has said something similar. Perhaps this is why the US commanders in Iraq are acting that way. They think it worked.

    2. You have to remember that almost all of the US commanders below the rank of Brigadier General did not participate in the Vietnam War. Most hadn’t participated in any war that lasted longer than 3-4 days. My point is that the younger members of the Army, in any case, have been taught that Vietnam was bad and no lessons learned were to be had from it. So, all the kids up at Hudson High have continued to study the US Civil War in fuzzy contentment. Shows, doesn’t it?

    3. I didn't present that article as a defense of US methods, just as a closer view than the BBC, etc. No need to make a case with me.

    I think the ex-Navy fighter pilots and ne’er-have-beens in DC have greedily taken way too big a bite this time. I hope it bites them back without doing any damage to the troops. I think it might in a year.