Spain to withdraw troops from Iraq

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by boney_m, Mar 15, 2004.

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  1. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040315/325/eojqw.html

    Apart from the obvious damage to Spain's international relations with the rest of the Allies - does anyone else think that a decision such as this, so soon after the Madrid bombings could send a message to the terrorists that their tactics are working?

    The message that should be sent out is that Spains resolve has only been tightened to finish the job they have started - and not to capitulate to terrorism, however shocking and dreadful the bombings were.

    Has anyone else got any thoughts?
     
  2. Churchill
     
  3. Couldn't agree more. There's an inherent danger in allowing terrorism to effect the ballot box anyway - and the Spanish people have a lot to answer for here as well. By rights the election should have been postponed to let this one draw itself out.
    How many would find this sort of reverse sabre rattling suspicious anyway? I have a sneaking suspicion that the new order will use this threat to lever what they can from our friends across the Atlantic...
     
  4. does seem that AQ got what they wanted :(
     
  5. The pressure will be mounting now for the other European countries with troops in Iraq. Pressure from the threat of AQ attacks and pressure from the anti war movement.

    I just hope this does not cascade, I wouldnt be suprised if the French and Germans start to turn every screw on the other EU nations in an effort to undermine Anglo/American relations at such a sensitive time. :evil:
     
  6. The Madrid attack can be seen dispassionately as a successful attempt at regime change.

    Unfortunately, if you embark on a venture like Gulf War 2 without substantial international backing, there is neither safety nor strength in numbers. Furthermore, the gung-ho Bush and Bliar attack has acted as a recruiting sergeant for terrorist supporters worldwide.

    If you're going to start a fight make sure you have a big gang. It is too late this time (and I think that this sort of terrorism will die out given time) but we need to bear this in mind if any more "regime changes" are planned. Gather international support first and get blue helmets on the ground ASAP. Otherwise, don't bother, as it will be a strategic blunder, as in this case.
     
  7. Can't help think of the historical parallels. Which parallels? All 100% of every time in human history we've failed to tackle bad things and people head on.

    I can't know how things are going to go, but we have to hope that whoever runs the US in December doesn't bottle it, else we might as well pack up the remains of our civilisation and flush them away to get the whole thing over and done with quicker.

    If we are to keep the society and values we've grown up to respect we need to do something proactive about it. Today there is an enemy. He doesn't fit the genforce orbat. He doesn't fit the PIRA mold. The closest fit is something like ebola - locally devastating, completely unpredictable outbreaks, self-destroying in its ferocity, undeterrable, untreatable (as yet) and with unknown vectors.

    At the same time the general public has no concept of "enemy". Everyone is a normal human being with a different view point that needs to be understood and catered for. AQ needs to be understood to be infiltrated and killed. Looks so far like Spain is handing them their greatest victory yet.

    Barbara Amiel has an excellent piece in today's torygraph - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/03/15/do1501.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/03/15/ixopinion.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=99053
     
  8. I just cannot comprehend what the Spanish are playing at. The huge demonstrations were excellent, showing solidarity against terrorism.
    So then what do they do?
    Capitulate totally. Pull their troops out and hope the nasty men will leave them alone.
    (At least Blair didn't do it quite so quick with PIRA...)
    Exactly how not to deal with terrorism. Expect more atrocities soon, followed by much wailing from the Left.
     
  9. Firstly the Telegraph article is brilliant and for me sums up the situation perfectly.

    I am having trouble comprehending Spain's decision to pull their troops out of Iraq. We are led to believe that the majority of the Spanish public was against the war on Iraq, despite polls before the bombings showing that the PP were far in the lead (the party who took them to war!). But now a new party has got into power they have made the decision to pull their troops out, despite the fact that the troops are no longer fighting a war, but rather policing and supporting willing Iraqis to rebuild their country.

    I can only conclude that this is therefore a publicity stunt to try to win the party more support. I wonder how costly such a selfish act will be for the rest of the world.
     
  10. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

     
  11. just got back from spain , i have seen the public situation first hand , the view spanish public are generally selfish and self serving, they joined the EU only for the extra cash they can get from it, the war was a publicity stunt for PP at low risk, the spanish people dont have the courage or the bottle for war if looks like they end up in body bags ,
    the usual latino shite LOOK HARD!, DRESS HARD!, WITH HARD WEOPONRY as long they don't have to fight anybody stronger than them and get their uniform muddy :evil:
     
  12. nothing like a wide sweeping generalisation to use to kick a nation when its down eh Vespa :roll:
     
  13. i will admit that there are brave spaniards and even the French have been known to produce the odd brave ones as well

    having said that the spanish military record is not very brilliant ,1 spanish foreign legion last seen action in the western sahara possibly 1936 i think now based in Fuerteventura and even then the war memorial can only muster up about 5 names which is standing outside their HQ in Puerto De Rosario, nowadays all they do is get pissed in town, as to the main spanish army they didnt join in the WW2 instead they go round slaughtering each other in the Spanish Civil war , mass shootings of prisoners ( very Brave) throwing 3000 communists prisoners down Ronda Tajo Gorge. the communist werent so innocent too in fact they spared the war by killing a monarchist MP giving Franco the pretext to invade spain from africa, i could go on......

    but even then i don't think spain don't deserve this 202+ dead and many more wounded for just going about their business and the scrubby attempt by PP to tar the ETA was an own goal by Anzar and i dont like him as he was a card carrying member of Francos Fascist part, i have no time for two faced toadies.
     
  14. Sweeping generalisation Vespa, very

    The Spanish , voted to remove Aznar, because they felt sick and tired of being lied to. When Aznar tried to blame ETA , in spite of the fact,that to the average Spaniard it didn't have ETA's MO, it was enough.

    We have the hump, that we have a Prime minister (May he live a thousand etc etc) who is nothing more than a poodle. Now, if our national pride feels slighted, then imagine what a Latin feels like, to see his/her PM in the same position?

    Spanish cowardice? Spanish Civil War, and the Western Sahara might shine a different light on that statement.

    The bombing was a godsend to the opposition. To this point, Al-Quaeda still isn't involved, as far as the CIA and the legoites are concerned , that may have changed, I haven't seen the latest news yet, but Spain is pointing the finger at Moroccan extremists, I belive CIA have gone with that as well.

    Yes the Spanish PM says he will bring the troops home IF the UN aren't given control . In other words, if we go to the UN position post-elections as promised, the Spanish will stay in the sandpit. It's a point a lot of people seem to miss, especially Americans , who see every criticism of the invasion oooops Liberation of Iraq, as treachery of the first water.

    The Spanish exercised their democratic rights. It wasn't so long ago, that they couldn't.

    Make no bones, the Dons will hunt terrorists as hard as they can, and the new PM, will want to produce heads on stakes as quickly as possible. There is a lot of activity between Rabat and Madrid right now, let's see what it brings.

    Still, there is one bonus for the Spanish people out of this tragedy, I doubt ETA will be bombing anything soon.
     
  15. i do agree with you on that one