Soviet era rockets no longer fit for purpose?

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
BBC today

Astronauts escape malfunctioning rocket

ISS launch ends with emergency landing.

It seems that manned space travel has reached a crossroads.

Basically the Soyuz is an old design, but very safe (so far) Now are the failures going to increase? In the background is the US/Russia political system. I can imagine Trump opposing US astronauts to ride on Commie rockets.

Also, there are the mega rich, such as Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk who are preparing new rockets which will shortly be man-rated. India and China are a little more secretive, and could come up with anything but I cannot see China putting up people in space who they are not very good friends with.

Any ideas on which way men go into space?
 
#4
Shuttle suffers launch failure - every dead

Soyuz suffers launch failure - every walks away

Soyuz gets my vote!
How many Soyuz blew up on the pad in the fifties/sixties/seventies? Perhaps that is how they got the reliability sorted? In theory Ariane 5 and things link Delta IV could be man rated, if the demand and funding was there. What about X-37?
 
#6
How many Soyuz blew up on the pad in the fifties/sixties/seventies? Perhaps that is how they got the reliability sorted? In theory Ariane 5 and things link Delta IV could be man rated, if the demand and funding was there. What about X-37?

Not many, they've thrown thousands of the basic designs into orbit
 

petetheplane

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
BBC today


Basically the Soyuz is an old design, but very safe (so far) Now are the failures going to increase? ?


The Soyuz launch system may be an old design, but it has over 1700 successful flights under its' belt. They are not re-usable, so I imagine that today's vehicle was brand new. Bad news happens, but I am so glad that the astronaut / cosmonaut crew are safe.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
#8
Shuttle suffers launch failure - every dead

Soyuz suffers launch failure - every walks away

Soyuz gets my vote!
As far as we know the Russians have had very few in flight deaths, I think possibly 4, one in the very early days which was unreported and a crew of three in a Soyuz return module. This I think is mainly due to keeping to tried and trusted systems whilst NASA has lost crews in the Apolo 1 flash fire and in two Shuttles, Columbia and Challenger. Columbia was a wing failure secondary to external panel damage and Challenger was an SRB failure.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
How many Soyuz blew up on the pad in the fifties/sixties/seventies? Perhaps that is how they got the reliability sorted? In theory Ariane 5 and things link Delta IV could be man rated, if the demand and funding was there. What about X-37?
Why are NASA using Russian engines today, in a word reliability.
 
#10
As far as we know the Russians have had very few in flight deaths, I think possibly 4, one in the very early days which was unreported and a crew of three in a Soyuz return module. This I think is mainly due to keeping to tried and trusted systems whilst NASA has lost crews in the Apolo 1 flash fire and in two Shuttles, Columbia and Challenger. Columbia was a wing failure secondary to external panel damage and Challenger was an SRB failure.

The Soyuz is not terribly much changed from the launcher that put Sputnik into orbit.
The Americans had a very simple and robust launcher in the Saturn 1B, (Clusters Last Stand) that many at the time thought should have become its base launcher, but it wasn't very Buck Rogers like the Shuttle.

Still,

back to the future now for NASA

Space Launch System (SLS) Overview
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
#11
The Soyuz is not terribly much changed from the launcher that put Sputnik into orbit.
The Americans had a very simple and robust launcher in the Saturn 1B, (Clusters Last Stand) that many at the time thought should have become its base launcher, but it wasn't very Buck Rogers like the Shuttle.

Still,

back to the future now for NASA

Space Launch System (SLS) Overview
Why change something that works. The Soviet's did try for a STS type system with Buran (snowflake) but only got to remote control flight testing before the Soviet Union collapsed so didn't develop beyond Soyuz.

1539263104057.jpeg


 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
How many Soyuz blew up on the pad in the fifties/sixties/seventies? Perhaps that is how they got the reliability sorted? In theory Ariane 5 and things link Delta IV could be man rated, if the demand and funding was there. What about X-37?
If you are going to ISS, is it not far cheaper to just pay to hitch a ride on a Soyuz?
 
#17
Shuttle suffers launch failure - every dead

Soyuz suffers launch failure - every walks away

Soyuz gets my vote!
I take it you don't know much about the Soyuz project history then - clue, their under-developed captured German tec had a high failure rate and has killed many more people than NASA ever has......
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#18
Not many, they've thrown thousands of the basic designs into orbit
As a child/ teenager in the 60s I was heavily into everything astronaut/ cosmonaut. I remember reading how all Soviet command modules were essentially spherical. They very quickly got 2, 3, 5 cosmonauts into space, always one step ahead of the USA.

But I also read that the command module that put five men into space had a diameter only 6" greater than Soyuz 1 . They just learned what, on the balance of probability, they didn't need and stripped it out.
 
Last edited:
#20
I take it you don't know much about the Soyuz project history then - clue, their under-developed captured German tec had a high failure rate and has killed many more people than NASA ever has......

So far as is known :

== When============Where========== Dead
1960-10-24 Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakh SSR 78
1963-10-24 Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakh SSR 8
1966-12-14 Baikonur Cosmodrome, USSR 1
1967-04-24 Return From Orbit Soyuz 1 1
1971-06-30 Decompress in Orbit Soyuz 11 3
1973-06-26 Plesetsk Cosmodrome, USSR 9
1980-03-18 Plesetsk Cosmodrome, USSR 48
2002-10-15 Plesetsk Cosmodrome, Russia 1
2002-05-12 Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakhstan 8
2017-06-14 Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakhstan 2
 

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