South Africa lifts ban on elephant culling

#1
JOHANNESBURG (AFP) - South Africa's 13-year moratorium on elephant culling was set to be lifted on Thursday to combat a surge in population numbers, despite an outcry from animal rights activists.

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The South African government earlier this year authorised the killing of elephants from May 1 as a last resort in limiting the numbers of the African elephant that have more than doubled since culling was halted in 1995.

Environment Minister Marthinus van Schalkwyk said the issue of population management of the animals had been "devilishly complex" after a long and emotive public debate over plans to reduce elephant numbers.
I understand that hunting is highly beneficial for animal management but this is usually kept quiet understandably. If somebody in the public eye were to go on a big five hunt like, say film stars 50 years ago, they'd probably have to go into hiding! Any thoughts, especially from those into stalking?

Web Page Name//news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080430/sc_afp/safricaenvironmentelephants_080430034231
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#2
mac1 said:
JOHANNESBURG (AFP) - South Africa's 13-year moratorium on elephant culling was set to be lifted on Thursday to combat a surge in population numbers, despite an outcry from animal rights activists.

ADVERTISEMENT

The South African government earlier this year authorised the killing of elephants from May 1 as a last resort in limiting the numbers of the African elephant that have more than doubled since culling was halted in 1995.

Environment Minister Marthinus van Schalkwyk said the issue of population management of the animals had been "devilishly complex" after a long and emotive public debate over plans to reduce elephant numbers.
I understand that hunting is highly beneficial for animal management but this is usually kept quiet understandably. If somebody in the public eye were to go on a big five hunt like, say film stars 50 years ago, they'd probably have to go into hiding! Any thoughts, especially from those into stalking?

Web Page Namehttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080430/sc_afp/safricaenvironmentelephants_080430034231
Limited hunting of big game animals happens all over Africa, it is very lucrative.
Personnally I would find the idea of executing a lion or elephant rather sick (not enough skill involved to call it a sport IMO).
I shoot things to eat - fine, better than commercially farmed meat or battery birds.
I shoot things that are a pest in my locale - eg they kill other animals or birds and need to be managed.
I also have no problem with a controlled cull if it is in the interest of the species and there is no other option, carried out by the game wardens with the skill and knowledge.
Of course all of Africa is infested with nelliphants, nowhere else they could be moved to .....

I strongly disagree with some fat cnut paying thousands to execute an elephant - which is what I suspect may happen here. In fact I would be prepared to pay an equivalent amount to defend the elephant on equal terms :twisted:
 
#3
Alsacien said:
mac1 said:
JOHANNESBURG (AFP) - South Africa's 13-year moratorium on elephant culling was set to be lifted on Thursday to combat a surge in population numbers, despite an outcry from animal rights activists.

ADVERTISEMENT

The South African government earlier this year authorised the killing of elephants from May 1 as a last resort in limiting the numbers of the African elephant that have more than doubled since culling was halted in 1995.

Environment Minister Marthinus van Schalkwyk said the issue of population management of the animals had been "devilishly complex" after a long and emotive public debate over plans to reduce elephant numbers.
I understand that hunting is highly beneficial for animal management but this is usually kept quiet understandably. If somebody in the public eye were to go on a big five hunt like, say film stars 50 years ago, they'd probably have to go into hiding! Any thoughts, especially from those into stalking?

Web Page Namehttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080430/sc_afp/safricaenvironmentelephants_080430034231
Limited hunting of big game animals happens all over Africa, it is very lucrative.
Personnally I would find the idea of executing a lion or elephant rather sick (not enough skill involved to call it a sport IMO).
I shoot things to eat - fine, better than commercially farmed meat or battery birds.
I shoot things that are a pest in my locale - eg they kill other animals or birds and need to be managed.
I also have no problem with a controlled cull if it is in the interest of the species and there is no other option, carried out by the game wardens with the skill and knowledge.
Of course all of Africa is infested with nelliphants, nowhere else they could be moved to .....

I strongly disagree with some fat cnut paying thousands to execute an elephant - which is what I suspect may happen here. In fact I would be prepared to pay an equivalent amount to defend the elephant on equal terms :twisted:
How fat the foreign hunter may be is less relevant than how much he is prepared to pay. It's a very effective way to raise VERY substantial funds for conservation programmes. These funds can provide a good income for locals - sufficient to encourage them into stopping poaching which is far more damaging.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#5
EX_STAB said:
Alsacien said:
mac1 said:
JOHANNESBURG (AFP) - South Africa's 13-year moratorium on elephant culling was set to be lifted on Thursday to combat a surge in population numbers, despite an outcry from animal rights activists.

ADVERTISEMENT

The South African government earlier this year authorised the killing of elephants from May 1 as a last resort in limiting the numbers of the African elephant that have more than doubled since culling was halted in 1995.

Environment Minister Marthinus van Schalkwyk said the issue of population management of the animals had been "devilishly complex" after a long and emotive public debate over plans to reduce elephant numbers.
I understand that hunting is highly beneficial for animal management but this is usually kept quiet understandably. If somebody in the public eye were to go on a big five hunt like, say film stars 50 years ago, they'd probably have to go into hiding! Any thoughts, especially from those into stalking?

Web Page Namehttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080430/sc_afp/safricaenvironmentelephants_080430034231
Limited hunting of big game animals happens all over Africa, it is very lucrative.
Personnally I would find the idea of executing a lion or elephant rather sick (not enough skill involved to call it a sport IMO).
I shoot things to eat - fine, better than commercially farmed meat or battery birds.
I shoot things that are a pest in my locale - eg they kill other animals or birds and need to be managed.
I also have no problem with a controlled cull if it is in the interest of the species and there is no other option, carried out by the game wardens with the skill and knowledge.
Of course all of Africa is infested with nelliphants, nowhere else they could be moved to .....

I strongly disagree with some fat cnut paying thousands to execute an elephant - which is what I suspect may happen here. In fact I would be prepared to pay an equivalent amount to defend the elephant on equal terms :twisted:
How fat the foreign hunter may be is less relevant than how much he is prepared to pay. It's a very effective way to raise VERY substantial funds for conservation programmes. These funds can provide a good income for locals - sufficient to encourage them into stopping poaching which is far more damaging.
I have spent a fair bit of time in Africa and what you say is often true on some levels - but the money almost never goes to conservation, it goes into local officials pockets.
I find the people prepared to pay to do this extremely distasteful, they also cast a shadow over other people who hunt for more legitimate reasons.
 
#6
Money Talks.

It costs $ 200,000 to go and KILL the big 5 in any "good" canned hunting area in SA.

I had the unfortunate pleasure of being advised to stay in the “Leopard Rock lodge” after my luggage was lost and I had to stay in SA before moving onto Botswana.

We arrive to hear we had missed the Rhino hunt by a day? WTF aren’t they protected?

“Oh no, well not if you have if you have 50 grand to spare. FUKKERS the lot.
 
#7
Alsacien said:
mac1 said:
JOHANNESBURG (AFP) - South Africa's 13-year moratorium on elephant culling was set to be lifted on Thursday to combat a surge in population numbers, despite an outcry from animal rights activists.

ADVERTISEMENT

The South African government earlier this year authorised the killing of elephants from May 1 as a last resort in limiting the numbers of the African elephant that have more than doubled since culling was halted in 1995.

Environment Minister Marthinus van Schalkwyk said the issue of population management of the animals had been "devilishly complex" after a long and emotive public debate over plans to reduce elephant numbers.
I understand that hunting is highly beneficial for animal management but this is usually kept quiet understandably. If somebody in the public eye were to go on a big five hunt like, say film stars 50 years ago, they'd probably have to go into hiding! Any thoughts, especially from those into stalking?

Web Page Namehttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080430/sc_afp/safricaenvironmentelephants_080430034231
Limited hunting of big game animals happens all over Africa, it is very lucrative.
Personnally I would find the idea of executing a lion or elephant rather sick (not enough skill involved to call it a sport IMO).
I shoot things to eat - fine, better than commercially farmed meat or battery birds.
I shoot things that are a pest in my locale - eg they kill other animals or birds and need to be managed.
I also have no problem with a controlled cull if it is in the interest of the species and there is no other option, carried out by the game wardens with the skill and knowledge.
Of course all of Africa is infested with nelliphants, nowhere else they could be moved to .....

I strongly disagree with some fat cnut paying thousands to execute an elephant - which is what I suspect may happen here. In fact I would be prepared to pay an equivalent amount to defend the elephant on equal terms :twisted:
Frankly, I agree with pretty much everything in your post especially the fat cnut executing the elephant. OTOH fifteen mile stalks followed by a quick clean kill by someone who can really shoot that I've read about is the best way to do it IMHO.
 
#8
If only the excess could be driven up to Angola. The country has nothing in the way of wildlife - all eaten. You're lucky to hear a bird sing there. I've seen camel and elephant herds driven the length of a country before, successfully, so there's no deep logistical problem. There might be an issue in persuading the Angolans not to eat them immediately, but I'm sure NuLab could lend a few PRs to Luanda first.
 
#9
I agree with fat nuggets paying ludicrous sums of money to take down these beasts. But whether it's them or a culler working for the nature reserve, etc. doing it, it still has to be done in certain areas. They pose a great threat to people as they are very aggressive animals when they believe they are being confronted. They also rip down trees at an alarming rate.

As I say, foreign folk going down to SA to shoot up the big five should be shot and gang raped themselves.

Mod edit
 
#12
Well I have no problem with eli's being hunted and killed. The reaction so far has been pretty well what you expect from Brits. If someone with money is prepared to go after elis and get a 15m shot I take my hat off to him because that takes real balls, even if you have two PH's behind you.

Hunting and killing eli or for that matter lion is no different than killing anything else. Elephants are not quite as rare as some animal protection organisations would have you believe and so there is no reason not to kill a percentage other than emotional. Bit like seals in this country. The place is rotten with them, we have greenpeace telling use how that they are endangered and no politician has the balls to permit a legal cull because he would be hung out to dry by greenpiss. A clear case of emotion getting in the way of good practice.
 
#13
Yessir.

Side note, not very interesting... but the now Environment Minister, Marthinus van Schalkwyk, used to be my dads boss when he was in parliament :roll:
 
#14
.338lapua_magnum said:
Well I have no problem with eli's being hunted and killed. The reaction so far has been pretty well what you expect from Brits. If someone with money is prepared to go after elis and get a 15m shot I take my hat off to him because that takes real balls, even if you have two PH's behind you.

Hunting and killing eli or for that matter lion is no different than killing anything else. Elephants are not quite as rare as some animal protection organisations would have you believe and so there is no reason not to kill a percentage other than emotional. Bit like seals in this country. The place is rotten with them, we have greenpeace telling use how that they are endangered and no politician has the balls to permit a legal cull because he would be hung out to dry by greenpiss. A clear case of emotion getting in the way of good practice.
If you can guarantee a constructive use for all of the carcase I'd agree with you. Until then, get thinking. There's nothing in the world as repulsive as a hunter who kills for his pleasure and wastes the kill.
 
#16
Whiskybreath said:
.338lapua_magnum said:
Well I have no problem with eli's being hunted and killed. The reaction so far has been pretty well what you expect from Brits. If someone with money is prepared to go after elis and get a 15m shot I take my hat off to him because that takes real balls, even if you have two PH's behind you.

Hunting and killing eli or for that matter lion is no different than killing anything else. Elephants are not quite as rare as some animal protection organisations would have you believe and so there is no reason not to kill a percentage other than emotional. Bit like seals in this country. The place is rotten with them, we have greenpeace telling use how that they are endangered and no politician has the balls to permit a legal cull because he would be hung out to dry by greenpiss. A clear case of emotion getting in the way of good practice.
If you can guarantee a constructive use for all of the carcase I'd agree with you. Until then, get thinking. There's nothing in the world as repulsive as a hunter who kills for his pleasure and wastes the kill.
All good points - I think the controversy & contention with hunting the big 5 arises through the history of hunting them to extinction - especially the ivory issue. But if you take this away, its pretty much the same as any other type of species management and people have far less of a problem with it. For example, this website's promoting the idea of having a holiday shooting deer:

Web Page Namewww.deerstalkingscotland.co.uk/
 
#17
Whiskybreath, in my experience although limited, fresh meat in Africa has an amazing ability to vanish quickly. Most, if not all the concessions allow the nearest Native villages to take the meat off the large animals.

As for waste; well I think that we in the UK are in no position to lecture anyone else on waste. As a country we throw away up to one third of all food bought. That would indicate to me that for every animal that walks into the slaughter house a third of the acceptable (as a pose to usable) protein is wasted!

When it comes to wasteful practices we are no better. I will use seals as an example because thay attract such emotional responses. I am legally authorised to kill problem seals however, although I can use the carcass for my own use, I cannot legally sell any single part of it. In fact the guidelines within the law recommend that the carcass be taken to an area where it cannot be seen by the general public.
Now what is the more wasteful?
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#18
.338lapua_magnum said:
Whiskybreath, in my experience although limited, fresh meat in Africa has an amazing ability to vanish quickly. Most, if not all the concessions allow the nearest Native villages to take the meat off the large animals.

As for waste; well I think that we in the UK are in no position to lecture anyone else on waste. As a country we throw away up to one third of all food bought. That would indicate to me that for every animal that walks into the slaughter house a third of the acceptable (as a pose to usable) protein is wasted!

When it comes to wasteful practices we are no better. I will use seals as an example because thay attract such emotional responses. I am legally authorised to kill problem seals however, although I can use the carcass for my own use, I cannot legally sell any single part of it. In fact the guidelines within the law recommend that the carcass be taken to an area where it cannot be seen by the general public.
Now what is the more wasteful?
As we see from the charming bushmeat trade, the meat as you say, may not go completely to waste.
It is also safe to assume that various parts such as feet, gentitalia, tail etc will also be put to "good" use.
Shall we mention what will happen to the ivory?

There is too much money involved in this to expect conservation and management to be the decision making criteria.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#19
mac1 said:
Whiskybreath said:
.338lapua_magnum said:
Well I have no problem with eli's being hunted and killed. The reaction so far has been pretty well what you expect from Brits. If someone with money is prepared to go after elis and get a 15m shot I take my hat off to him because that takes real balls, even if you have two PH's behind you.

Hunting and killing eli or for that matter lion is no different than killing anything else. Elephants are not quite as rare as some animal protection organisations would have you believe and so there is no reason not to kill a percentage other than emotional. Bit like seals in this country. The place is rotten with them, we have greenpeace telling use how that they are endangered and no politician has the balls to permit a legal cull because he would be hung out to dry by greenpiss. A clear case of emotion getting in the way of good practice.
If you can guarantee a constructive use for all of the carcase I'd agree with you. Until then, get thinking. There's nothing in the world as repulsive as a hunter who kills for his pleasure and wastes the kill.
All good points - I think the controversy & contention with hunting the big 5 arises through the history of hunting them to extinction - especially the ivory issue. But if you take this away, its pretty much the same as any other type of species management and people have far less of a problem with it. For example, this website's promoting the idea of having a holiday shooting deer:

Web Page Namewww.deerstalkingscotland.co.uk/
Its what I do for a living! Only down sarf not up in PW land!
 
#20
.338lapua_magnum said:
Whiskybreath, in my experience although limited, fresh meat in Africa has an amazing ability to vanish quickly. Most, if not all the concessions allow the nearest Native villages to take the meat off the large animals.

As for waste; well I think that we in the UK are in no position to lecture anyone else on waste. As a country we throw away up to one third of all food bought. That would indicate to me that for every animal that walks into the slaughter house a third of the acceptable (as a pose to usable) protein is wasted!

When it comes to wasteful practices we are no better. I will use seals as an example because thay attract such emotional responses. I am legally authorised to kill problem seals however, although I can use the carcass for my own use, I cannot legally sell any single part of it. In fact the guidelines within the law recommend that the carcass be taken to an area where it cannot be seen by the general public.
Now what is the more wasteful?
All true. However, I'm no friend of the canned hunt anyway, as those I've seen (in farms W and S of Messina, and in Zim) are just shooting galleries (in my humble...). I used to hunt in Tanzania, but only for the good of my employees and their families, and on an emotional level I find sport hunting repellent. Management of these resources is a big subject now, with the population explosions in most African countries, and it needs very careful direction in order to ensure that the benefits to all parties are maximised, and are (cough) sustainable.
 

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