Soon, Big Brother will be watching us all online

#1
"…The aim is that within a year, everybody in the country should have a personalised website through which they would be able to find out about local services and do business with the Government. A unique identifier will allow citizens to apply for a place for their child at school, book a doctor’s appointment, claim benefits, get a new passport, pay council tax or register a car from their computer at home.…"


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7069240.ece


A 'unique identifier' eh? Would that be an ID card number perchance?
 
#3
Legs said:
Semper_Flexibilis said:
A 'unique identifier' eh? Would that be an ID card number perchance?
Or the one every adult has. NI Number.
Or passport number. Or driving licence number. Or NHS number.

Calm down, S_F, they're not printing that barcode onto your forehead just yet...

Won't happen anyway. Anyone remember the paperless office?
 
#4
Bravo_Zulu said:
Legs said:
Semper_Flexibilis said:
A 'unique identifier' eh? Would that be an ID card number perchance?
Or the one every adult has. NI Number.
Or passport number. Or driving licence number. Or NHS number.

Calm down, S_F, they're not printing that barcode onto your forehead just yet...

Won't happen anyway. Anyone remember the paperless office?
Paperless office !!!

Hang on, I don't want to lose that litle gem, I'll jusy print it out and file it over here 8O
 
#5
Bravo_Zulu said:
Legs said:
Semper_Flexibilis said:
A 'unique identifier' eh? Would that be an ID card number perchance?
Or the one every adult has. NI Number.
Or passport number. Or driving licence number. Or NHS number.

Calm down, S_F, they're not printing that barcode onto your forehead just yet...

Won't happen anyway. Anyone remember the paperless office?

You're very trusting… Of course your 'unique identifier' PIN would never become a de facto ID number
 
#6
Switch off cynicism and tin foil hat wearing conspiratory theorists take a day off. If you look at the HMRC Self Assessment site and DVLA Road Tax sites, both are examples of how Government should provide services. Unfortunately these successes are weakened by a sh1te Government that fails to truly understand how the majority of people want to access Government services . This should be a welcome move but again idiots will make a dogs ar5e out of things.
 
#7
HueyRat said:
Switch off cynicism and tin foil hat wearing conspiratory theorists take a day off. If you look at the HMRC Self Assessment site and DVLA Road Tax sites, both are examples of how Government should provide services. Unfortunately these successes are weakened by a sh1te Government that fails to truly understand how the majority of people want to access Government services . This should be a welcome move but again idiots will make a dogs ar5e out of things.

My cynicism is driven by the fact the Government obsesses with ways of trying to introduce ID cards by the back door.
 
#9
Markintime said:
Semper_Flexibilis said:
My cynicism is driven by the fact the Government obsesses with ways of trying to introduce ID cards by the back door.
You cannot have an ID Card Number as your personal identifier. Lose your ID Card and a fraudster would have direct access to every aspect of your life.
I believe that is exactly the point being made. However, i agree with S_F. I am sure the government will press ahead with this sort of idea. They will come up with an impressive security system,that will not be able to take into account a government minister losing the database whilst "researching" from home or on the train!
 
#10
Will they be able to see my search history for sites that include man/boy love? thats more of a concern than anything to be honest :)
 
#11
Markintime said:
Semper_Flexibilis said:
My cynicism is driven by the fact the Government obsesses with ways of trying to introduce ID cards by the back door.
You cannot have an ID Card Number as your personal identifier. Lose your ID Card and a fraudster would have direct access to every aspect of your life.
You mean like the recently unvieled 'secure' UK ID card that the Register cracked in minutes?
 
#12
Semper_Flexibilis said:
Bravo_Zulu said:
Legs said:
Semper_Flexibilis said:
A 'unique identifier' eh? Would that be an ID card number perchance?
Or the one every adult has. NI Number.
Or passport number. Or driving licence number. Or NHS number.

Calm down, S_F, they're not printing that barcode onto your forehead just yet...

Won't happen anyway. Anyone remember the paperless office?

You're very trusting… Of course your 'unique identifier' PIN would never become a de facto ID number
Yeah, cos you don't have any other de facto ID numbers.....
 
#13
Not only have the Government issued me an ID card, but they've put an eight figure identifying number on it along with my photo, DofB and blood type.

I don't have a big brother though.

Should I be worried?
 
#14
If the NHS database is anything to go by, we'll all be long gone before it comes online.
As for the unique number,
NI number
Passport
Driving license
Mod 90
Bank account
Any motoring organisation or club card
Nectar card.
Credit card
Etc etc.

No need to panic yet.
 
#15
A 'unique identifier' eh? Would that be an ID card number perchance?
I think the OP is right to be cynical re: ID cards as they are trying to get the damn things in by any means possible. Not for your benefit, but for theirs. A centralized state owned biometric profile is ideal for control freaks and for those fundamentally opposed to individual freedom.

There may be some benefits of a personalised website, but it is too soon to say. I don't hold much hope for it though.

The threat of such schemes come not in the identifying numbers per se, but in how the systems collate and allow analysis of information, who has access to it and for what purposes. The biggest misconceptions about the ID scheme are that: 'it is just a number and we have those already' and 'the state has all this information already'. NI number, Passport, Driving licence etc are not identity documents in themselves, even though they may be taken as such. It is discretionary. For those not realising the significance of this I'll be more explicit and say that the state does not currently have the authority to create identity profiles, which it owns, on all citizens in Britain without your consent. Think about this statement for a second, and even if you have not read the ID Cards Act to discover what it's really about, consider who does your identity belong to? Do you want it to belong to the state and what might the implications of this be?
 
#16
ploder said:
Do you want it to belong to the state and what might the implications of this be?
I cant really think of any major implications that might hinder me, what implications do you mean.
 
#17
stacker1 said:
ploder said:
Do you want it to belong to the state and what might the implications of this be?
I cant really think of any major implications that might hinder me, what implications do you mean.
I'm guessing that they may, deliberately or by mistake, remove or amend your identity. A national ID database will essentially give the state the ability to remove you from any public service they choose, with the knock-on effects that has on your ability to access private ones. Want treated at your GP? Not without ID. Want to open a bank account? Not without ID. Want a mortgage? Not without a bank account and ID. Etc.

Identity is a tricky thing to pin down, without direct personal knowledge of the individual because it depends entirely on that direct personal knowledge. Without that, ID is what a sufficiently authoritative person says it is. If I say that you're Osama bin Laden or a paedophile then probably very few people will believe me unless I can prove it. If the National ID Database says so, you're fucked unless you can prove otherwise. And guess who gets to decide what constitutes 'proof'?
 
#18
smartascarrots said:
stacker1 said:
ploder said:
Do you want it to belong to the state and what might the implications of this be?
I cant really think of any major implications that might hinder me, what implications do you mean.
I'm guessing that they may, deliberately or by mistake, remove or amend your identity. A national ID database will essentially give the state the ability to remove you from any public service they choose, with the knock-on effects that has on your ability to access private ones. Want treated at your GP? Not without ID. Want to open a bank account? Not without ID. Want a mortgage? Not without a bank account and ID. Etc.

Identity is a tricky thing to pin down, without direct personal knowledge of the individual because it depends entirely on that direct personal knowledge. Without that, ID is what a sufficiently authoritative person says it is. If I say that you're Osama bin Laden or a paedophile then probably very few people will believe me unless I can prove it. If the National ID Database says so, you're fucked unless you can prove otherwise. And guess who gets to decide what constitutes 'proof'?
Quite a few other countries have a national ID card without any major problems, While i agree it shouldn't be sold as voluntary when in reality its going to happen anyway. I don't think many of the horror stories of identity being lost will come true.
Ran properly, (If a goverment could ever do such a thing) it might save on money as NI cards, passports and some other forms of ID may become redundant.
It might also save on low level fraud (The big criminals will find a away around it).
A lot of people assume that someone is going to personally monitor everything they do, this will never be the case.
 
#19
stacker1 said:
Quite a few other countries have a national ID card without any major problems, While i agree it shouldn't be sold as voluntary when in reality its going to happen anyway. I don't think many of the horror stories of identity being lost will come true.
Ran properly, (If a goverment could ever do such a thing) it might save on money as NI cards, passports and some other forms of ID may become redundant.
It might also save on low level fraud (The big criminals will find a away around it).
A lot of people assume that someone is going to personally monitor everything they do, this will never be the case.
If you have such faith that identity loss and identity theft won't happen, I happen to have a few investments you might be interested in...

Low-level fraud can be combated without a national ID card simply by taking a bit more care all round. This is a sledgehammer to crack that particular nut. It will greatly increase the risk of high-level fraud and identity theft, including by terrorists and organised crime rather than some random junkie trying to forge a cheque.

I doubt very much that anyone in officialdom will monitor my every move, 24/7. They could already do that if if was important to them. But this makes that an immediately available, effortless option without any need to put a convincing case before a court. If you think it won't be abused or the regulations interpreted 'flexibly' if it'll save someone some effort or enable a cost saving, then I have to wonder where you got your view of human nature from.
 
#20
jimmys_best_mate said:
Not only have the Government issued me an ID card, but they've put an eight figure identifying number on it along with my photo, DofB and blood type.

I don't have a big brother though.

Should I be worried?
Blood Type ey? That's out of date mate, obsolete, get yourself down to the admin office and get a new one squared away! You see, big brother is watching :twisted:
 

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