Something From History You Probably Never Knew...

I think this is the correct thread for this, and apologies if already done before, but apparently:

According to research by The Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association there were about 12,000 helicopters that served in the Vietnam War out of which 5,086 were destroyed.


That is one hell of an attrition rate. Would the MOD/War Office ever contemplated that level of loss since WW2?

The link below has some pretty impressive pictures also. (Again, apologies if covered before but not an easy one to search for on here).

5,086: Number of helicopters destroyed during the Vietnam War – WW2Wrecks.com
 
I think this is the correct thread for this, and apologies if already done before, but apparently:

According to research by The Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association there were about 12,000 helicopters that served in the Vietnam War out of which 5,086 were destroyed.

That is one hell of an attrition rate. Would the MOD/War Office ever contemplated that level of loss since WW2?

The link below has some pretty impressive pictures also. (Again, apologies if covered before but not an easy one to search for on here).

5,086: Number of helicopters destroyed during the Vietnam War – WW2Wrecks.com

Given the number of 'hot' areas they were operating in, and once damaged to a serious degree would not be recovered, maybe it's not so surprising. In previous wars it would have been horses or MT.

Shows how essential the 'copter was in theatre.

What was the attrition rate on crews?
 
Given the number of 'hot' areas they were operating in, and once damaged to a serious degree would not be recovered, maybe it's not so surprising. In previous wars it would have been horses or MT.

Shows how essential the 'copter was in theatre.

What was the attrition rate on crews?
From the link I provided.

Total helicopter pilots killed in the Vietnam War was 2,202. Total non-pilot crew members was 2704. Based on a databasefrom the Pentagon, we estimate that over 40,000 helicopter pilots served in the Vietnam War.
 
I notice there were no Piasecki H21s listed as destroyed. Maybe they were withdrawn from service before things ramped up.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I notice there were no Piasecki H21s listed as destroyed. Maybe they were withdrawn from service before things ramped up.
One was the first US help lost in action as a shoot down
Wiki says “The shooting down of a CH-21 Shawnee near the Laotian-Vietnamese border with the death of four aviators in July 1962 were some of the U.S. Army's earliest casualties in the Vietnam War.[11]

footage is available of the Ap Bac shoot down on Ken Burns Vietnam
 
One was the first US help lost in action as a shoot down
Wiki says “The shooting down of a CH-21 Shawnee near the Laotian-Vietnamese border with the death of four aviators in July 1962 were some of the U.S. Army's earliest casualties in the Vietnam War.[11]

footage is available of the Ap Bac shoot down on Ken Burns Vietnam

ISTR our first spitfire losses were to Hurricanes.

Found .....

 
One was the first US help lost in action as a shoot down
Wiki says “The shooting down of a CH-21 Shawnee near the Laotian-Vietnamese border with the death of four aviators in July 1962 were some of the U.S. Army's earliest casualties in the Vietnam War.[11]

footage is available of the Ap Bac shoot down on Ken Burns Vietnam
Listed as CH21 and not H21. My error. I'll hand in my nerd badge when I leave.
 

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
Just seen on DAVE QI. apparently a stain on your character comes from heraldry.
If you, for example, killed a surrendered knight you get something like three prongs placed on the bottom of your coat coat of arms. these badges of misconduct are called STAINS in the vocabulary of Heraldry , I wonder what one G Archer should have appended to his coat of arms ?
 
Just seen on DAVE QI. apparently a stain on your character comes from heraldry.
If you, for example, killed a surrendered knight you get something like three prongs placed on the bottom of your coat coat of arms. these badges of misconduct are called STAINS in the vocabulary of Heraldry , I wonder what one G Archer should have appended to his coat of arms ?
Were any English coats of arms marked for the slaughter of French prisoners at Agincourt?
 

sirbhp

LE
Book Reviewer
I think this is the correct thread for this, and apologies if already done before, but apparently:

According to research by The Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association there were about 12,000 helicopters that served in the Vietnam War out of which 5,086 were destroyed.

That is one hell of an attrition rate. Would the MOD/War Office ever contemplated that level of loss since WW2?

The link below has some pretty impressive pictures also. (Again, apologies if covered before but not an easy one to search for on here).

5,086: Number of helicopters destroyed during the Vietnam War – WW2Wrecks.com
yuo want to see the list of stuff left behind by the yanks ,i beleive the viet nam government was supplying arms all over the place but kept the helicopters and transport planes etc running for years .
 

Mayo's D-Day heroine to receive special US honour​

Updated / Saturday, 19 Jun 2021 17:18

Maureen Sweeney's weather forecast played a pivotal role in World War II

Maureen Sweeney's weather forecast played a pivotal role in World War II


A 98-year-old woman living in Co Mayo, is to be given a special US House of Representatives honour in Belmullet this evening, for the role she played in changing the course of world history with her weather reports.

Maureen Sweeney, who is originally from Co Kerry, forecast an impending storm from Blacksod station in 1944 which changed the timing of the D-Day landings and ultimately secured victory for the Allies.

The remote Blacksod lighthouse and coastguard station played a key role during World War II supplying Britain with weather reports.

Ted and Maureen Sweeney were amongst those taking readings on an hourly basis, which were being secretly phoned into London.

At 1pm on 3 June 1944, 21-year-old Maureen was first to forecast a severe Atlantic storm, which led to a change of plan in one of the world's biggest military operations.

00173490-614.jpg


D-Day was postponed to 6 June and the rest is history.

Maureen's readings unwittingly gave the Allies two day advance warning of stormy conditions in western Europe, forcing General Dwight D Eisenhower to delay his meticulously planned invasion of Normandy.

Maureen's son, Vincent, is the lighthouse keeper at Blacksod Point and he recalled how she used rudimentary instruments and equipment to record weather data.

00173492-614.jpg


This was one of her duties in the little post office in Blacksod, which he described as "being a world away from the bloodshed and tragedy of the war".

Vincent said people in the area had no idea of the significance of the weather report and rather the part it was to play in the war.



Maureen Sweeney will be honoured at Tí Aire nursing home in Belmullet.

A letter will be read out from the World War II museum in New Orleans, Louisiana, as well as a personal note from US Congressman and retired 3-Star Admiral Jack Bergman (Michigan First District), who is the highest ranking veteran to ever serve in Congress.

The special recognition, which has been awarded since 1789, entitles Maureen to receive a proclamation noting her accomplishments, and will be placed in the US Library of Congress for perpetuity.

0017349e-614.jpg


A special medal in recognition of Maureen's 'Laudable Actions' will be placed on her lapel and there will be music and poetry performed for Mayo's D-Day heroine.

Speaking in a recorded interview with her grandson Fergus Sweeney in 2014, Maureen said: "Eisenhower was making up his mind about whether to enter France or not. He was very divided but when he saw the report from Blacksod Point it confirmed he made the right decision.

00173491-614.jpg
Fergus Sweeney
"That report was sent from here on the 3rd June and the following morning there was a query at around 11 o'clock. And then was a second query. A lady with a distinct English accent requested me to 'Please Check. Please Repeat!' We began to look at the figures again. We checked and rechecked and the figures were the same both times so we were happy enough then".

Maureen added with pride, "they relied on our weather forecast. It’s something you’ll remember for a lifetime."

It was well over a decade before Maureen Sweeney and her family learned how that weather report helped turned the tide of World War II.

In a Nationwide interview recorded 15 years ago, Maureen chuckled at the role Blacksod played.

"They could arrange everything but they couldn’t pre-arrange the weather! They had it all worked out to the nearest detail but our weather report put the first spoke in the wheel.

"They would have gone ahead and the invasion would have been a complete disaster. There they were with thousands of aircraft and they couldn't tolerate low cloud. We're delighted we put them on the right road. We eventually had the final say!"

John J Kelly is a first generation Irish-American and was fascinated by Maureen’s story and set about getting official recognition for the Sweeney family.

001734a1-614.jpg


He said he is extremely honoured to have been given the task of presenting the award to Ms Sweeney
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
Some good info on the ISU-152 and why there were three (or four) at Chernobyl in 1986
 
Were any English coats of arms marked for the slaughter of French prisoners at Agincourt?
They were only obeying orders.

The KIng told them to do it. I think that whatever the King decided was legal and justified, since he derived his right to rule directly from the will of God.
 
They were only obeying orders.

The KIng told them to do it. I think that whatever the King decided was legal and justified, since he derived his right to rule directly from the will of God.
Only one chronicle account, that of Pierre Fenin, has the raid on the baggage as the reason for Henry’s order to kill the prisoners. All the others explain it as arising out of his being informed that a new French force was approaching. Even Fenin does not mention the killing of anyone in the camp: a couple of local men ‘launched an attack on the baggage of the English making great affray. As a result the English feared that the French would come upon them to do them harm. Thus the English killed many of the prisoners they had’.

ETA: not my words - a quote.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
They were only obeying orders.

The KIng told them to do it. I think that whatever the King decided was legal and justified, since he derived his right to rule directly from the will of God.
The outrage only came years later, not one contemporary account condemns it. It was in accordance with the "laws" of warfare at the time. A bit like the Black Prince at Limoges, it's been blown up out of proportion.
Prince of Darkness?
 
The outrage only came years later, not one contemporary account condemns it. It was in accordance with the "laws" of warfare at the time. A bit like the Black Prince at Limoges, it's been blown up out of proportion.
Prince of Darkness?
I think the only outrage at the time was amongst the English over losing their many lucrative ransoms.

The French would usually unfurl the Oriflamme at the start of a battle they'd expected to win (although apparently not at Agincourt) which meant no quarter would be given. In any event, quarter was only given to those rich enough to afford a ransom, the rank and file didn't count. Standard operational procedure all round, it seems.
 

Mayo's D-Day heroine to receive special US honour​

Updated / Saturday, 19 Jun 2021 17:18

Maureen Sweeney's weather forecast played a pivotal role in World War II's weather forecast played a pivotal role in World War II

Maureen Sweeney's weather forecast played a pivotal role in World War II


A 98-year-old woman living in Co Mayo, is to be given a special US House of Representatives honour in Belmullet this evening, for the role she played in changing the course of world history with her weather reports.

Maureen Sweeney, who is originally from Co Kerry, forecast an impending storm from Blacksod station in 1944 which changed the timing of the D-Day landings and ultimately secured victory for the Allies.

The remote Blacksod lighthouse and coastguard station played a key role during World War II supplying Britain with weather reports.

Ted and Maureen Sweeney were amongst those taking readings on an hourly basis, which were being secretly phoned into London.

At 1pm on 3 June 1944, 21-year-old Maureen was first to forecast a severe Atlantic storm, which led to a change of plan in one of the world's biggest military operations.

00173490-614.jpg


D-Day was postponed to 6 June and the rest is history.

Maureen's readings unwittingly gave the Allies two day advance warning of stormy conditions in western Europe, forcing General Dwight D Eisenhower to delay his meticulously planned invasion of Normandy.

Maureen's son, Vincent, is the lighthouse keeper at Blacksod Point and he recalled how she used rudimentary instruments and equipment to record weather data.

00173492-614.jpg


This was one of her duties in the little post office in Blacksod, which he described as "being a world away from the bloodshed and tragedy of the war".

Vincent said people in the area had no idea of the significance of the weather report and rather the part it was to play in the war.



Maureen Sweeney will be honoured at Tí Aire nursing home in Belmullet.

A letter will be read out from the World War II museum in New Orleans, Louisiana, as well as a personal note from US Congressman and retired 3-Star Admiral Jack Bergman (Michigan First District), who is the highest ranking veteran to ever serve in Congress.

The special recognition, which has been awarded since 1789, entitles Maureen to receive a proclamation noting her accomplishments, and will be placed in the US Library of Congress for perpetuity.

0017349e-614.jpg


A special medal in recognition of Maureen's 'Laudable Actions' will be placed on her lapel and there will be music and poetry performed for Mayo's D-Day heroine.

Speaking in a recorded interview with her grandson Fergus Sweeney in 2014, Maureen said: "Eisenhower was making up his mind about whether to enter France or not. He was very divided but when he saw the report from Blacksod Point it confirmed he made the right decision.

00173491-614.jpg
Fergus Sweeney
"That report was sent from here on the 3rd June and the following morning there was a query at around 11 o'clock. And then was a second query. A lady with a distinct English accent requested me to 'Please Check. Please Repeat!' We began to look at the figures again. We checked and rechecked and the figures were the same both times so we were happy enough then".

Maureen added with pride, "they relied on our weather forecast. It’s something you’ll remember for a lifetime."

It was well over a decade before Maureen Sweeney and her family learned how that weather report helped turned the tide of World War II.

In a Nationwide interview recorded 15 years ago, Maureen chuckled at the role Blacksod played.

"They could arrange everything but they couldn’t pre-arrange the weather! They had it all worked out to the nearest detail but our weather report put the first spoke in the wheel.

"They would have gone ahead and the invasion would have been a complete disaster. There they were with thousands of aircraft and they couldn't tolerate low cloud. We're delighted we put them on the right road. We eventually had the final say!"

John J Kelly is a first generation Irish-American and was fascinated by Maureen’s story and set about getting official recognition for the Sweeney family.

001734a1-614.jpg


He said he is extremely honoured to have been given the task of presenting the award to Ms Sweeney

What a wonderful story !

The fact that she had to pass that weather information in secret - because the south was supposed to be neutral - must play a part in why it has taken so long for this to come to recognition.
Same goes for all the southern Irishmen who joined the British Army to fight Nazism. They went home and suffered decades of institutional blacklisting - because they had 'joined the Brits'.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
What a wonderful story !

The fact that she had to pass that weather information in secret - because the south was supposed to be neutral - must play a part in why it has taken so long for this to come to recognition.
Same goes for all the southern Irishmen who joined the British Army to fight Nazism. They went home and suffered decades of institutional blacklisting - because they had 'joined the Brits'.
Zero Alpha flounced from Mumsnet when they threatened to hike prices because of Covid (and it was getting cliquey) and joined a breakaway.

They have a This Day In History thread in which they try to refer to interesting women from TDIH. 0A got volunteered to help cover when the thread author couldn't cover, and now she provides periodic articles.

I pointed her at this woman, despite there not being an obvious TDIH link. She says she'll be doing an article on her anyway, cos it's definitely worth doing.
 
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