Something From History You Probably Never Knew...

Something from History I did not know (till today)

The British Army's post war workhorse MBT, the Centurion , served in both the Six Days War in the Middle East and in Vietnam.



<a href="CENTURION TANK VIETNAM 1972 - PHOTO PART TWO - a photo on Flickriver">View large on black</a>
My wife's late brother-in-law was called back from UK to Israel to do his national service and was a tank driver in the 6 day war. He drove every type of tank that the Israelis had at that time and always said that the Centurion was the best tank over sand that they had.
 
My wife's late brother-in-law was called back from UK to Israel to do his national service and was a tank driver in the 6 day war. He drove every type of tank that the Israelis had at that time and always said that the Centurion was the best tank over sand that they had.
That doccie link above has a dit about a Cent in the Gulf War being laughed at by the yanks, who were then amazed when it outpaced their Abrams' over the soft stuff.
 
Excuse my perplexity, wasn’t that silver screen snippet of French penal exile filmed on and around the actual well you know prison itself or was the leper’s colony actually sandbank Street Glasgow
Filmed on location in Spain and Jamaica. The 2nd Unit filmed the closing scene of an overgrown prison in Guiana, but it was on the mainland. There was no footage of the island as it is a slightly underwhelming view.
Named because of the tidal race, which can suck a rowboat under, not because of the prison.
 
Well, as Rome had burned Carthage before leaving no stone atop another, sown the fields with salt, put all the males to the sword and sold everyone else into slavery, there remained no one to say anything to the contrary.

The victors write the history.

The Napoleonic Wars were not Britain -v- France, though, it was France trying to conquer all Europe, and the Americas. With their reluctant allies, Spain, 'Mexico' extended up the west coast to within sight of the Columbia River, Oregon, 200 miles from Vancouver.
On the East Coast, 'New France' (Canada) extended south to the Caribbean, hemming the British colony between themselves and the Atlantic.

When 'New France' fell to the English it caused a problem for Paris. The French Canadians were a symbol of that defeat and could never be allowed home, but they were good Catholics and the Pope wasn't up for their being tainted by English Protestantism, so the solution was the fever infested jungles of French Guiana, where most of them lived foreshortened lives.

Well off- topic: Devil's Island, French Guiana, BTW. Nothing at all like the one portrayed in the original movie of Papillon. Low lying, rocky, in close company with two other similar rock islands,Isle Royale, and Isle St Joseph, with prisons, that create an unsurvivable tidal race that made the building of simple cable cars between the islands, essential.
The three islands are the tip of a very ancient submerged volcano.
(As always, found the research fascinating and absorbing, when writing Armageddon's Song)
Informative.I believe some historians suggest that the napolionic wars,were wporthy of being considered as the first world wide war?
 
Something from History I did not know (till today)

The British Army's post war workhorse MBT, the Centurion , served in both the Six Days War in the Middle East and in Vietnam.



<a href="CENTURION TANK VIETNAM 1972 - PHOTO PART TWO - a photo on Flickriver">View large on black</a>
Centurion BARV 02 ZR 77 was originally one of the first Centurions built between 1944 and 1946. It was one of two BARVs that took part in the landings at San Carlos in 1982 and remains the longest serving armoured vehicle in the British forces, leaving service in 2005 after taking part in both Gulf wars.
 
Informative.I believe some historians suggest that the napolionic wars,were wporthy of being considered as the first world wide war?
Again, if I may, I'd very much suggest the Seven Years War deserves the soubriquet. Fought on three continents it was the real start of Britain's usurption of France's status as the dominant European/World power.

By the end of that conflict Britain had established virtual hegemony in North America, the Caribbean and India. Arguably it set in motion the American and French revolutions, creating the conditions for Napoleon's rise, and established English as the global lingua franca. Had the Seven Years War ended differently the world would be a very different place.
 
Again, if I may, I'd very much suggest the Seven Years War deserves the soubriquet. Fought on three continents it was the real start of Britain's usurption of France's status as the dominant European/World power.

By the end of that conflict Britain had established virtual hegemony in North America, the Caribbean and India. Arguably it set in motion the American and French revolutions, creating the conditions for Napoleon's rise, and established English as the global lingua franca. Had the Seven Years War ended differently the world would be a very different place.
If you haven't read it, "1759 - The Year Britain Became Master of the World" by Frank McLynn is worth working through. Apart from the theatres you mention. there were also the battles of Minden and Quiberon Bay.

And of course, Hearts of Oak. It's 1759 which is referred to in
"To add something more
To this glorious year."
 
That doccie link above has a dit about a Cent in the Gulf War being laughed at by the yanks, who were then amazed when it outpaced their Abrams' over the soft stuff.
Because the US has no sandy areas to test tanks like Yuma, Arizona or the Mojave Desert in California where Ft Irwin is? :roll:
 
Lert & WP,thanks for that,you have piqued my interest & lack of knowledge on that event.It will be remedied ASAP.
Death or Victory by Dan Snow is a pretty good primer. It concentrates heavily on the Heights of Abraham and the death of Wolfe but the chapters on the geopolitical effects are pretty good. I know he gets a hard time for being a TV populist but I think he's a good, accessible writer.
 
Because the US has no sandy areas to test tanks like Yuma, Arizona or the Mojave Desert in California where Ft Irwin is? :roll:
Which is where the vast majority of the M1's sandy testing took place.
However, sand in the Gulf area is of a different type to that in Yuma and Ft Irwin. I was told this by the Sand Analyst at Avco Lycoming who made the turbine engines for the M1 - it had an effect on the type of engine filters needed.
As a slight aside, the subject came up over lunch in the Avco chalet at the Farnborough Air Show in 1990.
Just before, TV news had been broadcasting pictures of M1s arriving in country in C5s.
I was chatting to an old friend from Avco and opined that it didn't make sense, IMHO, at a time when a rapid build-up of force and supplies seemed necessary, to use C5s to transport 1x MBT each.
My friend then called over the Sand Analyst and asked me to repeat my opinion.
'You're right,' said the SA. 'I can tell you from looking at it in the film. That sand is in Yuma and it looks as if the Pentagon has trundled in a C5, offloaded an M1, filmed it, changed the tail number and reloaded the tank, then filmed the aircraft taxiing in and offloading again, several times.'
Good propaganda, though.
 
Which is where the vast majority of the M1's sandy testing took place.
However, sand in the Gulf area is of a different type to that in Yuma and Ft Irwin. I was told this by the Sand Analyst at Avco Lycoming who made the turbine engines for the M1 - it had an effect on the type of engine filters needed.
As a slight aside, the subject came up over lunch in the Avco chalet at the Farnborough Air Show in 1990.
Just before, TV news had been broadcasting pictures of M1s arriving in country in C5s.
I was chatting to an old friend from Avco and opined that it didn't make sense, IMHO, at a time when a rapid build-up of force and supplies seemed necessary, to use C5s to transport 1x MBT each.
My friend then called over the Sand Analyst and asked me to repeat my opinion.
'You're right,' said the SA. 'I can tell you from looking at it in the film. That sand is in Yuma and it looks as if the Pentagon has trundled in a C5, offloaded an M1, filmed it, changed the tail number and reloaded the tank, then filmed the aircraft taxiing in and offloading again, several times.'
The engine filters issue was raised in 1984 and fixed years BEFORE the GW1. In fact it was a enlisted mech who came up with the solution.

Nice try
 
The engine filters issue was raised in 1984 and fixed years BEFORE the GW1. In fact it was a enlisted mech who came up with the solution.

Nice try
You are probably right. I only test drove the M1 at APG in 1981.
All I said above was that the different sand types effected the turbine filters, not that the problem hadn't been addressed before 1990.
IIRC sometime 82 or 83, the M1 was trialled in the Gulf, alongside Challenger and Leclerc, for sale to one of the Gulf States and that's when the problems came to light - not just for the M1.

ETA: Prior to the Gulf trials, the M1 was tested against Leo 2 by the Swiss Army in view of a replacement for the Centurion.
 
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I'm confused. The French were effectively thrown out of North America during the Seven Years War. The writing on the wall being obvious to all after their defeat at the Battle of the Plains of Abraham outside Quebec. In 1759. Ten years before Napoleon was born. So not the Napoleonic Wars then.
My bad . Ever looking out of the window during history.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
That doccie link above has a dit about a Cent in the Gulf War being laughed at by the yanks, who were then amazed when it outpaced their Abrams' over the soft stuff.
...and was still going when the gas-guzzling M1 Abrams had run out of juice...

@mnairb - looking at the phots for Israeli tanks in the 6 Day War ( as you do on a slow Sunday) I was amazed at the variety and age of what was clanking around....quite apart from the ageing Soviet crap they were facing, the IDF were still operating both Shermans and Comets, as well as the Cents.
 
My bad . Ever looking out of the window during history.
To be fair the whole period including the Seven Years, Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars does tend to kind of get amalgamated. You could probably chuck the Spanish Succession in the hat as well. But not Jenkins' Ear of course. That would be ludicrous.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
Pinched from somebody else's post on another thread, I didn't know that Michael Portillo and Diane Abbott were at school together. Imagine the fumble behind the bike shed.
 

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