Some Questions to ask

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by NEO_CON, Sep 14, 2006.

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  1. This is just my point of view, but I was surprised to learn how deadly Northern Ireland was. What little news coverage their was of the conflict in Northren Ireland in the US was a bombing in London or of a attack on a Royal . The Mitchell negotiations got a little more news coverage. Whether the British lesson learned in Northern Ireland apply in Iraq or Afghanistan I leave for others to decide.
    This link came from another thread

    Some questions to ask.
    What lessons from Northern Ireland apply to Iraq and Afghanistan ?
    Are the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan so different from Northern Ireland, that the lessons learned don't apply ?

  2. Spikes analysis is shit.

    He includes fatalities from the warfighting phase with the Post OP phase. Fatalities are not the only indicator of voilence. I suspect (don't have figures to hand) that the number of attacks has increased year on year and in comparison to the 'troubles' that the KIA/1000 pers/d is significantly higher than NI as well as the level of attacks.

    Neo-con, have some pride and review the material before you post.

    As for LI's yes and no.....not got time at the minute
  3. Lots of lessons do cross over. But during lengthy chats with my old man on the subject he always says the biggest difference is the scale of action.

    For example.

    Contacts we are having in Iraq and Afghan are sometimes long engagements with thousands of rounds fired in both directions.

    But back in the 70's with each man carrying between 20-30 rounds of ammunition the engagements were only short but effective. Either side would fire a couple of rounds but achieve the objective of taking a life.

    We are getting into a situation now where bot sides are loosing off HE, LMG, HMG and anti armour weapons But not achieving the same results on the enemy. I think thats why the kill counts are different.

    What we have to remember is for a known player to get a pistol and ten rounds across belfast was a massive achievment. However your average choggi would be shocked if he was caught moving Mortars/Rockets/and from personal experience Heavy anti aircraft kit.

    Northern Ireland. Small scale Massively effective!
    Middle East. Massive Scale. Not getting anywhere!

    That counts for both sides!
  4. I put the link on in a different thread which Neo-Con refers to. It was in ans to a comment made that British losses in Iraq in the last few months were more than those in NI over many years and was justified on that thread, I did 3 tours in the 70’s so have some experience but still wasn’t fully aware of the casualty list, number of shootings, bombings etc. Another good link is
    I never intended to enter into a p*ssing contest on that tread nor do I on this.
    My own opinion is that lessons were learnt in NI and some of them will have added to the training schedule of our troops today. That said it is a totally different environment, the British forces are far reduced in numbers, are far from home, have little respite in between operational tours and are facing an enemy who is totally different than anything they have faced before. I would like to think that if I was in now I would deal with it as we did then, with black humour, lots of moaning at the government, powers that be etc and stag on in true squady tradition. In truth I’m not sure I could. My full respects to all those living it now.
  5. Dave9727
    You have clearly touched on a nerve, I think the root of the problem is that too many people automatically make the assumption that because it worked in NI then we should export it to IQ and AFG. Clearly there have been some excellent lessons, especially at the lower level and for junior comds but most of the techniques and eqpt used in the Province do not have direct read accross. However due to the paucity in defence spending we have been forced into using some of the proven NI eqpt as it is better than nothing - but certainly no replacement for new kit and tactics designed to meet the CURRENT threat.

    One thing that has not really changed is the excellent qualities of our soldiers who have benefitted from training by some of our older and bold who have NI experience - not quite the combat experience being gained now but that will soon change as this new generation are able to pass on their newly derived skills and drills.

    Many threads on the current affairs forum discuss this issue, well worth a read as there are some great comments from some people really in the know and who are articulate - unlike rennug!
  7. For those of you who are interested there is also the Northern Ireland Veterans Association site.
  8. He also needs to do some historical research – there was no Royal Irish Regiment in 1972. The original regiment to bear that name, formerly the 18th (Royal Irish) Regiment of Foot was disbanded in 1922.

    The current Royal Irish Regiment was formed in 1992 by the amalgamation of the Royal Irish Rangers and the Ulster Defence Regiment.