Some folk, are not going to like this . . . "the genetics of intelligence"

Not at all. It's all about understanding and recognising the limitation of science. It's a useful tool if used correctly rather than some infallible oracle that people like Richard Dawkins seem to promote.
People who have an understanding of science are quite aware of the limitations. Including RD if you understand what he's saying.
 

luxation

War Hero
Dawkins uses science to push his nihilistic philosophy of life.
I'm educated in Grimsby so forgive me if I've misunderstood, but my dictionary says nihilistic means rejecting all religious and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless. Most of us atheists have a lot of very deeply held moral values, just as much as any religious person. The only difference is that we belief in what we think is right and will benefit mankind rather than what is written in an out of date book.
Having said that, Dawkins is a bit of a tw*t.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
I'm educated in Grimsby so forgive me if I've misunderstood, but my dictionary says nihilistic means rejecting all religious and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless. Most of us atheists have a lot of very deeply held moral values, just as much as any religious person. The only difference is that we belief in what we think is right and will benefit mankind rather than what is written in an out of date book.
Having said that, Dawkins is a bit of a tw*t.

Would you like to be introduced to a nihilistic atheist?
 

shibusa2

On ROPS
On ROPs
I'm educated in Grimsby so forgive me if I've misunderstood, but my dictionary says nihilistic means rejecting all religious and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless. Most of us atheists have a lot of very deeply held moral values, just as much as any religious person. The only difference is that we belief in what we think is right and will benefit mankind rather than what is written in an out of date book.
Having said that, Dawkins is a bit of a tw*t.

All sounds very logical except that this is, speaking in symbolic language, climbing the tree of knowledge that leads nowhere. It means we have made a god of our intellect and we can figure things out ourselves. That was the pride of satan who thought he could do it all himself. Symbolically we carry that arrogance and pride in our own disguised pretensions to godhood, i.e. the fallen human nature.
 

luxation

War Hero
All sounds very logical except that this is, speaking in symbolic language, climbing the tree of knowledge that leads nowhere. It means we have made a god of our intellect and we can figure things out ourselves. That was the pride of satan who thought he could do it all himself. Symbolically we carry that arrogance and pride in our own disguised pretensions to godhood, i.e. the fallen human nature.
Maybe I'm taking this too literally but I wouldn't say the tree of knowledge leads nowhere. It led to the creation of this device that you use to spread the word of your god. I wouldn't say human intellect is a god or that we'll ever figure everything out for ourselves but I'd have thought that learning how to use medicine to save lives and use physics to prevent natural disasters and to help people in general gives meaning to a lot of peoples' lives.
 

shibusa2

On ROPS
On ROPs
Maybe I'm taking this too literally but I wouldn't say the tree of knowledge leads nowhere. It led to the creation of this device that you use to spread the word of your god. I wouldn't say human intellect is a god or that we'll ever figure everything out for ourselves but I'd have thought that learning how to use medicine to save lives and use physics to prevent natural disasters and to help people in general gives meaning to a lot of peoples' lives.

Knowledge is not bad but its philosophical context can push it into a particular direction.
 

luxation

War Hero
Knowledge is not bad but its philosophical context can push it into a particular direction.
That's why religion scares me so much, but I'd better stop or continue this subject elsewhere before I get in trouble for hijacking a thread in the serious bit.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
That's why religion scares me so much, but I'd better stop or continue this subject elsewhere before I get in trouble for hijacking a thread in the serious bit.


But knowledge, philosophy and religion are all part and parcel of the serious bit, surely?

Capture.PNG



Trust you dig the iconography?
 
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All sounds very logical except that this is, speaking in symbolic language, climbing the tree of knowledge that leads nowhere. It means we have made a god of our intellect and we can figure things out ourselves. That was the pride of satan who thought he could do it all himself. Symbolically we carry that arrogance and pride in our own disguised pretensions to godhood, i.e. the fallen human nature.
Key words in this post make me realise that it is pointless discussing further with you. Enjoy the delusion and I hope reality breaks its way into your life at some stage.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
All sounds very logical except that this is, speaking in symbolic language, climbing the tree of knowledge that leads nowhere. It means we have made a god of our intellect and we can figure things out ourselves. That was the pride of satan who thought he could do it all himself. Symbolically we carry that arrogance and pride in our own disguised pretensions to godhood, i.e. the fallen human nature.


I read many years ago (about 1992) that the Catholic criticism of secular humanism was that, while it recognised the Christian virtues with the God bit extracted, it was faulty by making humans, by its very title, the central part of its values rather than merely a part of the whole of creation.
 

shibusa2

On ROPS
On ROPs
I read many years ago (about 1992) that the Catholic criticism of secular humanism was that, while it recognised the Christian virtues with the God bit extracted, it was faulty by making humans, by its very title, the central part of its values rather than merely a part of the whole of creation.

Correct. What I've also observed is how humanism is adopting its own rituals and proselytises just like a religion. Oh, the irony of it!
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
Correct. What I've also observed is how humanism is adopting its own rituals and proselytises just like a religion. Oh, the irony of it!


No irony involved, really. I'd not expect any other outcome.
 

luxation

War Hero
I read many years ago (about 1992) that the Catholic criticism of secular humanism was that, while it recognised the Christian virtues with the God bit extracted, it was faulty by making humans, by its very title, the central part of its values rather than merely a part of the whole of creation.
I thought it was Christians who saw humans as the centre of everything. Don't they see Earth as a place that god made for them? And animals are there for us to eat, everything on Earth is part of god's plan for us, etc. Atheists tend to see more value in other life forms and consider that science shows us that there is a lot more than us out there in the many galaxies.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
I thought it was Christians who saw humans as the centre of everything. Don't they see Earth as a place that god made for them? And animals are there for us to eat, everything on Earth is part of god's plan for us, etc. Atheists tend to see more value in other life forms and consider that science shows us that there is a lot more than us out there in the many galaxies.

No, I don't think so, or at least not for 2000 years. Your line is more Old Testament. Try the Benedictine concept of stewardship of the earth from 1500 years ago.

I'm not a Catholic, by the way, but this seems to ring true:

The Rule of Benedict and Environmental Stewardship – CSB/SJU
 
I studied the mind/brain problem extensively at university and came to the conclusion that the brain is entirely responsible for what we experience as the mind. The implications that has for free will are depressing.
Not just for free will.

Logically that places homo sapiens on the same moral plane as all other mammals, demolishes all notions of 'the soul' and of deity.

So, I wonder - when were you last in Church?.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Not just for free will.

Logically that places homo sapiens on the same moral plane as all other mammals, demolishes all notions of 'the soul' and of deity.

So, I wonder - when were you last in Church?.

Not for years, bar Remembrance services and weddings.

I never looked at the problem from the standpoint of biblical morality because it doesn't really interest me, but I'd say that it doesn't stop at mammals. There's no reason to put us on a different plane from any other living creature (or, more cynically, any other cohesive set of subatomic particles). If the course of the universe is predetermined then there's no reason to draw a moral distinction between anything really.
 
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