Somali pirates - what next

#1
The Beeb seems to be having a wristwatch disco about this one, as does the admiralty of our own and several other countries. Solution seems to be heavy duty patrolling. I can see it now. A bunch of already rich, ahem, Somalis, sat on the beach watching some high-cost naval military hardware chugging around until their defence ministry budget wont tolerate it any more and then bogging off. Back to business. Why not just napalm all coastal areas in the country? No-one would mind, even Ethiopia is moving its forces out. The Somalis kill aid workers and nick the aid...where is the problem with a spot of early morning victory?
 
#2
Does anyone still have Napalm in there inventories anymore?
 
#3
Who's going to complain? The country hasn't had a sitting government in years and any that did appear would, most likely, be quite pleased if this problem went away. Save them from all the international pressure to do something they would be unlikely to be able to.....
 
#4
roadster280 said:
I don't disagree at all. However, I think it highly unlikely that any foreign government would start bombing or shelling Somalia's sovereign territory................
Why? No-one thought twice about bombing and shelling the 'sovereign territory' of Iraq.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
in_the_cheapseats said:
Who's going to complain? The country hasn't had a sitting government in years and any that did appear would, most likely, be quite pleased if this problem went away. Save them from all the international pressure to do something they would be unlikely to be able to.....
If land is ungoverned, and hasn't been for many years, then there is no nation as such, and certainly one cannot engage in an act of war against a piece of land that has no recognised national government.

One CAN engage in an act of violence against a tribe of course, but Somalia doesn't have a 'national' tribe, so again, no act of war has occured.

Somalia doesn't have a democracy, it doesn't have a dictatorship, it doesn't have a national tribe, it doesn't have a constitution, it doesn't have a police force or army, it doesn't have a national bank, or reserves of currency, it has no penal code, no high court etc etc etc.

To my mind, it is simply a piece of ungoverned land, surrounded by nation-states, and many of the people thereon are engaged in crimes (as defined under international law).

If a national army moved in there to restore order and peace, and to stop crimes against nationals of nation-states, as long as such army acted within international law and any agreements it was signed up to, such as the Geneva Convention, then that would be just fine.

Of course, any army that went in there would have to know what it was doing in order that it didn't get bogged down before leaving in utter disgrace . . . . . :twisted:
 

BrunoNoMedals

LE
Kit Reviewer
#6
roadster280 said:
Defence 1). Mr Hussein was on the $hitlist for years. Remind me again who is the Somalian president?

Defence 2). Having endured years of grief over the Iraqi thing, just maybe the US and Brit govts would think twice before doing it again.

Defence 3). AFG has proved to be a timely reminder that a bunch of fcukwit raghead criminals can be a difficult enemy to engage.
Don't forget the hundreds of captives, from dozens of different nations, all held in the towns we'd quite happily see wiped from the map. Someone, somewhere, with a bit of clout, will be extremely annoyed if we go in and end up getting them killed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for doing this properly - in comparison to Iraq it's probably far more worthy a cause. In comparison to Afghanistan it's far more winnable (and in an acceptable timescale). It's somewhere where we can make a tangible difference, assuming that a government and societal infrastructure can be put in place quickly and efficiently. However, I think we've left it all too long, and we're now stuck in a situation where we can get by paying lip-service, without taking that first major step, but where nothing will improve.

Personally I'd say a one-off drive, paying the ransoms on ALL captives and leaving the area open for attack, would be benefitial in the long run (providing we DO follow it up with a serious show of force). However, I can't see the pirates trading their human shields - even for the vast sums in question.
 
#7
instinct said:
Does anyone still have Napalm in there inventories anymore?
If not, it certainly isn't hard to manufacture. I do remember hearing about things called fuel-air bombs, kind of upmarket napalm. Wouldn't be surprised if a sufficient number of those could be rustled up fairly quick.
As far as international law goes, I studied it and had immense respect for its aims ( back in the 80's), only to see it sprayed with urine in the following years. In the end I have come to believe there is only one real international law, and that is if you behave like a much, much bigger cnut than all the other cnuts, then you deserve to be whipped hard for it while everyone in the UN is too busy watching the football results on telly to notice, metaphorically speaking.
No question Somalia is a much worthier cause than some of the nonsense we have been forced to engage in. So is Darfur. I worked there in 86-87 and can relate to what farcical mess it has become thanks to a simple lack of guts on the part of "developed" countries to walk right in and slot the small handful who are responsible. Let's not even think about Zimbabwe.
 
#8
scrofula said:
If not, it certainly isn't hard to manufacture. I do remember hearing about things called fuel-air bombs, kind of upmarket napalm. Wouldn't be surprised if a sufficient number of those could be rustled up fairly quick.
As far as international law goes, I studied it and had immense respect for its aims ( back in the 80's), only to see it sprayed with urine in the following years. In the end I have come to believe there is only one real international law, and that is if you behave like a much, much bigger cnut than all the other cnuts, then you deserve to be whipped hard for it while everyone in the UN is too busy watching the football results on telly to notice, metaphorically speaking.
No question Somalia is a much worthier cause than some of the nonsense we have been forced to engage in. So is Darfur. I worked there in 86-87 and can relate to what farcical mess it has become thanks to a simple lack of guts on the part of "developed" countries to walk right in and slot the small handful who are responsible. Let's not even think about Zimbabwe.
Truth is Africa ain't worth it, no oil means no-one cares.

But I'm really surprised the russians haven't taken back that boat full of tanks, normally they would've killed everyone involved including the hostages by now
 
#9
roadster280 said:
I don't disagree at all. However, I think it highly unlikely that any foreign government would start bombing or shelling Somalia's sovereign territory.
I am pretty sure the yanks have already been doing that? Seem to recall missile strikes in the not too distant past.
 

Command_doh

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
If Somalia was invaded or had 'Peace Keepers' again (won't happen), there would be even more Islamist shenanigans going on there than when the Septics got their Arrse's kicked in the 1993 battle of Mogadishu, resulting in them completely pulling out of the country and region.
 
#11
Truth is Africa ain't worth it, no oil means no-one cares.

But I'm really surprised the russians haven't taken back that boat full of tanks, normally they would've killed everyone involved including the hostages by now[/quote]

Is there any update on the ship load of Tanks? Has a ransom been paid or they still on th Briney Sea getting rusty?
 
#12
Here's a funny idea, with an iota ( and that's just about all!) of sense. Assuming the Iraqi families who were devastated by the incompetence of Blackwater are compensated, maybe they should pool the cash together to pay another band of "independent international enforcers", led perhaps by a man with a fine chest of medals and a baronetcy, to stealthily pop off the leading lights in Khartoum and Robert Mugabe. There should be plenty of change left over after a simple op like that tto pay Crabair to drop love-eggs all over the beaches of Somalia. There might even be some pocket money for Maggie's Mark to indulge in another African expedition!!!!
 
#13
roadster280 said:
tmsbry said:
But I'm really surprised the russians haven't taken back that boat full of tanks, normally they would've killed everyone involved including the hostages by now
Hmm, quite right. Roadster's rule of thumb - do not fcuk with Russians, they will kill everyone and ask questions later. (See school siege, theatre siege, Chechnya, Georgia, and Mr Hitler may have had a view on this too).

However, they did get their arrses kicked in AFG 30 years ago, so perhaps they draw the line at fcukwit raghead criminals.
IIRC it was a ukrainian ship - not russian :wink:
 
#14
roadster280 said:
tmsbry said:
But I'm really surprised the russians haven't taken back that boat full of tanks, normally they would've killed everyone involved including the hostages by now
Hmm, quite right. Roadster's rule of thumb - do not fcuk with Russians, they will kill everyone and ask questions later. (See school siege, theatre siege, Chechnya, Georgia, and Mr Hitler may have had a view on this too).

However, they did get their arrses kicked in AFG 30 years ago, so perhaps they draw the line at fcukwit raghead criminals.
I understand that their losses in Chechnya have been pretty catastrophic as well.
 
#15
Crimson_Chin said:
roadster280 said:
tmsbry said:
But I'm really surprised the russians haven't taken back that boat full of tanks, normally they would've killed everyone involved including the hostages by now
Hmm, quite right. Roadster's rule of thumb - do not fcuk with Russians, they will kill everyone and ask questions later. (See school siege, theatre siege, Chechnya, Georgia, and Mr Hitler may have had a view on this too).

However, they did get their arrses kicked in AFG 30 years ago, so perhaps they draw the line at fcukwit raghead criminals.
IIRC it was a ukrainian ship - not russian :wink:
But didnt the Russians send a missile frigate & a spetsnaz group to somali waters
 
#16
...and did they come back? Probably a Potomkin-scale mutiny as the crew realised there were better rations and career options ashore than at home!
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top