Solving the TA Officer crisis - msr's fag packet comes out again

#1
Here's the current plan:

AOSB pass
6 weekends (9 for inf) (is this called TSC(A) this week?)
2 weeks at Sandhurst

Come out as 2Lt and be capped at 2Lt until you have passed Summer Leader / Mod3 / whatever other silly-stupid requirements that are flvour of the month, and the additional Mod5 weekends.

Regular nay-sayers: this is not a million miles from your Gap Year / 3Lt option.

Let's pack the Officers' Mess with bright young things not fat, balding mature students :)

m-s-r
 
#2
Here's the current plan:

AOSB pass
6 weekends (9 for inf) (is this called TSC(A) this week?)
2 weeks at Sandhurst

Come out as 2Lt and be capped at 2Lt until you have passed Summer Leader / Mod3 / whatever other silly-stupid requirements that are flvour of the month, and the additional Mod5 weekends.

Regular nay-sayers: this is not a million miles from your Gap Year / 3Lt option.

Let's pack the Officers' Mess with bright young things not fat, balding mature students :)

m-s-r
What level of training are you assuming pre-AOSB?

Personally, I think we ought to making more of the opportunity offered by the gap between university graduation and take-up of first job.
A 3-month commissioning course, plus a tax-free bonus of £10k - loan, student, paying-off for the use of.

If we want the Regular Army to take the TA seriously, then officers need to be deployable in role - which means their training must be fit for purpose.
 
#3
Here's the current plan:

AOSB pass
6 weekends (9 for inf) (is this called TSC(A) this week?)
2 weeks at Sandhurst

Come out as 2Lt and be capped at 2Lt until you have passed Summer Leader / Mod3 / whatever other silly-stupid requirements that are flvour of the month, and the additional Mod5 weekends.

Regular nay-sayers: this is not a million miles from your Gap Year / 3Lt option.

Let's pack the Officers' Mess with bright young things not fat, balding mature students :)

m-s-r
Surely they should do:

TSC(A)
TSC(B)

(Thus making them deployable and useful should they fail RMAS CC)

RMAS CC

Then off for Special to Arm training. No point Inf doing different before Sandhurst, but they should do StA after like everone else. Besides, it looks as if TSC(Inf) is going to get binned anyway.
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#4
Why not just ditch TA officers all together? It's clearly not working out. Keep the TA as a pool of low level manpower to fill gaps and use regular officers to run the show. Save for TA officers who have spent substantial time in the ranks, most are utterly gash.
 
#5
What level of training are you assuming pre-AOSB?

Personally, I think we ought to making more of the opportunity offered by the gap between university graduation and take-up of first job.
A 3-month commissioning course, plus a tax-free bonus of £10k - loan, student, paying-off for the use of.

If we want the Regular Army to take the TA seriously, then officers need to be deployable in role - which means their training must be fit for purpose.
None.

The purpose of this exercise is to fill the Officers' Mess as simply and rapidly as possible.

I would wager that almost no TA 2Lts are / have been taken in any role.

Let's get them in and then focus on the training / deployment issue.

As for paying off student loans, see here: http://www.arrse.co.uk/just-ta/164408-gi-bill-stylee-education-payments-fully-recruit-ta.html

m-s-r
 
#6
Why not just ditch TA officers all together? It's clearly not working out. Keep the TA as a pool of low level manpower to fill gaps and use regular officers to run the show. Save for TA officers who have spent substantial time in the ranks, most are utterly gash.
The current system is not working out. Gash officers are the result of gash SNCOs. Where do you think the regular officers are going to come from? er, no wait...
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#7
Resulting in a batch of newly minted cut price 2Lts who have spent no more time being trained than the lowest TA Pte soldier, and as such their capabilities will be similar.

They will be barely capable of looking after themselves in the field, let alone commanding anything. They will be a notional figurehead, even more vulnerable to guidance by poor NCOs which the TA has by the bucketload.

Fail, reshow with suitable level of basic skills training and command/leadership training included.
 
#8
Surely they should do:

TSC(A)
TSC(B)

(Thus making them deployable and useful should they fail RMAS CC)

RMAS CC

Then off for Special to Arm training. No point Inf doing different before Sandhurst, but they should do StA after like everone else. Besides, it looks as if TSC(Inf) is going to get binned anyway.
Too much time taken up. If they fail the 2 weeks at Sandhurst, they should be offered TSC (B).

m-s-r
 
#9
Resulting in a batch of newly minted cut price 2Lts who have spent no more time being trained than the lowest TA Pte soldier, and as such their capabilities will be similar.

They will be barely capable of looking after themselves in the field, let alone commanding anything. They will be a notional figurehead, even more vulnerable to guidance by poor NCOs which the TA has by the bucketload.

Fail, reshow with suitable level of basic skills training and command/leadership training included.
Meanwhile we carry on doing what we're currently doing and getting the results we're currently getting?

With a suitably progressive training package provided at regimental level, the inequalities should get evened out.

I am not saying we should lower the bar, but lengthen the run up (to Lt)
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#11
The current system is not working out. Gash officers are the result of gash SNCOs. Where do you think the regular officers are going to come from? er, no wait...
Well it seems to work quite well at my unit where around half the officers are regs and the rest have come through the ranks after numerous tours etc.

There is just one direct entrant YO in my mob (ex OTC) and he's currently on a cheeky two year FTRS stint.
 
#13
Option B

Ditch the institutionalised class system snobbery that pervades the Army (and TA) and seriously consider the former enlisted serviceman, aged <34, who now wishes to apply for a commission within the TA. And simply politely decline their application because they are former enlisted personnel.

There are a large number of enlisted soldiers who, upon entering civvy street, were found to be highly effective managers.

Just a thought.
 
#14
Option B

Ditch the institutionalised class system snobbery that pervades the Army (and TA) and seriously consider the former enlisted serviceman, aged <34, who now wishes to apply for a commission within the TA. And simply politely decline their application because they are former enlisted personnel.

There are a large number of enlisted soldiers who, upon entering civvy street, were found to be highly effective managers.

Just a thought.
Sorry, the crisis which currently exists has no room for those with sacks of potatoes on their shoulders.
 
#16
Too much time taken up. If they fail the 2 weeks at Sandhurst, they should be offered TSC (B).

m-s-r
Not really. Two weeks at Sandhurst (which is the same length of time Inf soldiers get at CIC) is not enough time to prepare Officers whilst catching up on TSC(B) stuff (which is basic, BASIC training).

TAPOs, in my view, need to spend time getting the basics right before going to on a number of RMAS CCs. Two weeks is not enough and you won't convince me otherwise.

Especially as one TA Trg Major put it to me last week "a private soldier in the Inf who has been in for three years has more experience than any of my TA Sgts and Officers who have been in for 10 years and never deployed".
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#17
Meanwhile we carry on doing what we're currently doing and getting the results we're currently getting?

With a suitably progressive training package provided at regimental level, the inequalities should get evened out.



I am not saying we should lower the bar, but lengthen the run up (to Lt)
But by then too much damage has been done to the 2Lt. They must have at least the impression of being trained and competent before they are presented to the blokes they will have to command.

The system must be simplified, without doubt, but presenting barely capable subbies with a single pip aiming mark on their chest is not the solution. They will drop bollocks and make mistakes (as we all did) but they are likely to make far more/more serious ones and lose credibility from day one. Once lost it is very hard to regain.
 
#18
Especially as one TA Trg Major put it to me last week "a private soldier in the Inf who has been in for three years has more experience than any of my TA Sgts and Officers who have been in for 10 years and never deployed".
I trust you put him right? That is a serious slight towards his predecessors.

Six months of doing the same thing every day is still one day of specialisation.

m-s-r
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#19
Especially as one TA Trg Major put it to me last week "a private soldier in the Inf who has been in for three years has more experience than any of my TA Sgts and Officers who have been in for 10 years and never deployed".
Indeed. A point I've tried to make in many a similar discussion regarding the RNR, the bunch of grown up sea cadet wasters.
 

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