Soldiers shed blood for shameful MoD

#1
Another good commentary in the Telegraph this morning...

Another day, and yet another shameful example emerges of the Government's almost criminal incompetence in protecting the lives of soldiers fighting on the front line of Tony Blair's wars. The latest scandal concerns the deaths of two soldiers killed in Iraq, whose inquests are finally being held this week at Oxford Coroner's Court.
Full commentary here
 
#2
Quote: "Mr Blair was at it again yesterday at his monthly press conference, insisting that reports that soldiers were being sent on dangerous missions without proper equipment had been exaggerated, and that when extra kit was required – helicopters in southern Afghanistan, armoured vehicles in southern Iraq – the Government had responded quickly and effectively.

Well, Mr Blair, tell that to the thousands of troops serving on the front lines in the war on terror where hardly a day passes without some new scandal emerging about chronic equipment shortages or military kit that is totally unsuitable. Over the past year the Government has been embarrassed by revelations that the "snatch" Land Rovers, designed for patrolling Belfast, were totally inadequate for the arid terrain of southern Afghanistan, and more recently The Daily Telegraph revealed that the lives of paratroopers were unnecessarily put in danger after the MoD sent defective ammunition as part of a cost-cutting exercise."

Pretty much sums it up in my eyes. That Blair continues to "defend" his position on some of this stuff is beyond belief.

It's about time there was some bloody honesty at the top of government, and for that matter in the CoC, in relation to the cluster that has been forced upon our armed forces. There are lessons to be learned and acted upon now, which will assist the safety of British forces in the Middle East. This constant bullshit PR from the PM, his ministers and the MOD, is doing nobody any favours, loeast of all, the men and women of our armed forces on the ground.

What will it take, the deaths of 30 / 40 of our people to die in the next month, before somebody in "opposition" has the balls to demand action and NOW.
 
#3
Unfortunatley, I feel that your last line is probably what it will take.

However I am glad to see these issues are being highlighted more often in the news articles. It is only a small thing, but it is more attention than has been shown up until a few weeks ago.
 
#4
Hopefully the newly formed BAFF will be able to engage with HM Opposition and put forth credible defense for the Forces and pressurise HMG/MoD to get their heads out the sand and to sort the present mess out.
 
#5
No doubt (God forbid) that an atrocity happens. The government PR machine will, after putting forward some token minister to express his "sincere condolences" to the bereaved families, will go onto to point out:

1. Details of the incident are sketchy - thus indicating that the commanders on the ground are not keeping them in the picture.

2. Deny any deficiencies existed that, in any way could have contributed to such an event happening.

3. Express surprise that the press aren't running with the great improvements in our procurement and logistics model.

4. Counter calls for a public enquiry, on the basis of cost, and the little benefit it would bring.

5. Tell any opposition, that they are making political capital out of the awful events of the last few days.

6. Remind the British public that Commanders on the ground have not requested any further troops, equipment, anything at ll in fact.

7. Show some footage of the ministers most recent three hour trip to Iraq or Afghanistan.

8. Pay tribute to "the brave men and women of our armed forces, for the professionalism that they have, in doing such a difficult job."

etc.
 
#6
9. Lessons will be learned, now let's draw a line under it and move on.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#7
Nutstrangler said:
9. Lessons will be learned, now let's draw a line under it and move on.
(. Subtext: THINKS: Parliamentary Recess coming up - hopefully a new headline in the New Year which will take the spotlight off us....)


...and for what its worth, the majority of ' shameful MoD' are heart and soul behind the men and women who DAILY endure on Ops...and quite a few know EXACTLY what conditions on the ground are like, having served in those theatres themselves.

Le Chevre
 
#8
Goatman said:
..and for what its worth, the majority of ' shameful MoD' are heart and soul behind the men and women who DAILY endure on Ops...

Evidently alas not in any real positions of power or influence - or are you saying that things actually could be a lot worse?
 
#9
Goatman said:
...and for what its worth, the majority of ' shameful MoD' are heart and soul behind the men and women who DAILY endure on Ops...and quite a few know EXACTLY what conditions on the ground are like, having served in those theatres themselves.

Le Chevre
I don't dispute this Goatman, but there is a Grand Canyon size disconnect between "What soldiers experience at the sharp end" and the words of Blair and numerous MOD figures. So, either, these dedicated professionals in Whitehall choose to keep quiet, or each day, they ignore the incorrect information previously mentioned. I can almost forgive Blair his lack of understanding - he's never served his country. But, he sits atop a very large (and informed) tree of information. I suppose the question is; Who reigns in the PM and his ministers, when they trot out a party line so at odds with the reality?
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#10
ABrighter2006 said:
I can almost forgive Blair his lack of understanding - he's never served his country. But, he sits atop a very large (and informed) tree of information. I suppose the question is; Who reigns in the PM and his ministers, when they trot out a party line so at odds with the reality?
I think that is a very fair question.....you mean apart from the Service chiefs? Not least CGS ?


Up there in the Adminisphere, on the slopes of Mount Olympus, sits the Head of the Ministry of Defence - the Permanent Under Secretary. So far above this Satsuma* as to be almost mythical.

Our Mandarin, who art in Main Building, SW1

The previous incumbent , Sir Kevin Tebbitt, came to us from the murky mysterious groves of GCHQ where he had spent his career. I had the pleasure of meeting him - sharp as a tack.

The current appointee since Nov 2005 is Mr Bill Jeffrey.

His bio sheet is here


A Scot.

From the Home Office.

Previously responsible for the Immigration Service.

Whilst I am sure he is a very able guy ( because you don't get to be a Permanent Sec if you can't reliably add 2 and 2 and get the same answer several times running) I cannot detect anything in the bio that says he has ever borne arms either in peacetime or on Operations...unlike his deputy Ian Andrews (2nd PUS - BAOR in 80s)

You might speculate that the Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus O'Donnell
( A Scot. Previously Labour Party prospective Parliamentary candidate) had taken a long look around Whitehall and reviewing a handful of possible candidates had hand-picked someone who.......would be palatable to the current tenants of Number 10 [ AND of course their gloomy Jock neighbour, Oor Broon]

You might speculate thus.....of course I could not possibly comment..... :scratch:



Le Chevre




* like a Mandarin - but with w-a-a-a-a-y fewer pips.....

[Edited thrice for mong spelling, dates and syntax]
 
#11
Goatman said:
...and for what its worth, the majority of ' shameful MoD' are heart and soul behind the men and women who DAILY endure on Ops...and quite a few know EXACTLY what conditions on the ground are like, having served in those theatres themselves.
This clearly doesn't include the 'accountants and copy boys' of Contracts Branch, then.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#13
ABrighter2006 said:
Cracking post Goatman!

We are truly not worthy - well I'm not anyway!
Oh dear.....there goes my <<career>>.


" Mikey....you don' unnerstan'.....I coulda been a CONTENDER "


Ho Hum.....pro bono publicum as Grandpa would have said.


Clementine
 
#14
Yes, excellent post Goatman.
Love that, to me, new word, Adminisphere.

Wish I'd made that up.
But its alright Oscar's just told me I will dear boy.

On a serious note, it is beginning to be ironic at a time when we are supposed to be imposing the outward trappings of democracy on peoples who never asked for it, from what I read on ARRSE back here in Britain our very own is in need of a good shake up itself.
 
#15
Goatman be advised I shall be using 'Adminisphere' frequently.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#16
Sorry guys, that Telegraph article was a pile of crap. It was outdated and said nothing new, it talked about CBA problems from 18 months - 3 years ago and SA80 from A! not the A2, so 4 years ago.

Whilst I agree the MOD / Gvnt has a disgraceful record, slagging it on the 12th December 2006 for problems dating back 4 years does nobody any good now. Cry Wolf only when there is a problem. The MOD / Gvnt does have some people who care (though not enough) and it shouldn't be slagged off arbitarily, but only when there is not enough of the right kit, ideally before the problem is highlighted by FF deaths.
 
#17
SLRboy said:
On a serious note, it is beginning to be ironic when we are supposed to be imposing the outward trappings of democracy on peoples who never asked for it.
I know this's not what we're talking about here but......Please ppl wake up for god's sake...This's a war for oil...Not the fcking democracy ....Those ppl who died there died for nothing..

A country where everybody hates you, fights you and calls you crusaders, infidels and believe you're there to colonize their lands and thier natural resources.....This's the way in Iraq.

So plz, at least for the respect for those who felt and for the families who lost thier beloved ones in a far away arabian deserts...Stop shitting about democracy.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#18
The Goatman is correct as always.

The next man in the MoD, below PUS, is Second PUS. This position is currently held by Ian Andrews TD. He was a TA Major (RRF, balham?) and has also done a year with the Regulars (back in the days when it was called an S Typre, I think), so has at least a decent knowledge of the Army. He is bloody sharp, and a thoroughly nice Man as well.

The Secretary of State for Defence, Swiss Toni, is however a Brownite placeman, put into the MoD to ensure that it toes the Brownite line - I can't see that he has any 'qualifications' apart from that.
 
#19
gentlman said:
SLRboy said:
On a serious note, it is beginning to be ironic when we are supposed to be imposing the outward trappings of democracy on peoples who never asked for it.
I know this's not what we're talking about here but......Please ppl wake up for god's sake...This's a war for oil...Not the fcking democracy ....Those ppl who died there died for nothing..

A country where everybody hates you, fights you and calls you crusaders, infidels and believe you're there to colonize their lands and thier natural resources.....This's the way in Iraq.

So plz, at least for the respect for those who felt and for the families who lost thier beloved ones in a far away arabian deserts...Stop shitting about democracy.
That'll be a consolation to the widows and families this Christmas.
 
#20
gentlman said:
SLRboy said:
On a serious note, it is beginning to be ironic when we are supposed to be imposing the outward trappings of democracy on peoples who never asked for it.
I know this's not what we're talking about here but......Please ppl wake up for god's sake...This's a war for oil...Not the fcking democracy ....Those ppl who died there died for nothing..

A country where everybody hates you, fights you and calls you crusaders, infidels and believe you're there to colonize their lands and thier natural resources.....This's the way in Iraq.

So plz, at least for the respect for those who felt and for the families who lost thier beloved ones in a far away arabian deserts...Stop shitting about democracy.
I appreciate that you are foreign and all that but you do seem to have missed the point.

We are all very well aware that it has nothing whatsoever to do with democracy I trust my bold has helped indicate your missunderstanding of the original post.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top