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soldiers paying tax in iraq

#2
Unlucky, but I suppose you would have a point if they were out of the UK for more than 9 months 12 twelve (or 9 months out of 12 on average over 4 years)
 
#3
Currently if you are in the UK for more than 90 days in 1 year you pay income tax on your worldwide income.

However I personally believe any squaddie on ops should not pay tax while there. Make it a special case like the yanks do. Actual loss to the countries coffers would be minute. Think of the boost to moral and feeling of worth it would generate within the Mil, all for a few quid. I'm surprised it hasn't actually been done.
 
#4
Without wishing to praise them - but the Americans have cobbled a scheme together which means their troops dont pay tax and whate ver whilst out of the country and - as i understand it - allways manage to arrange roulements in such a way as to get maximum advantage out of it. so if they can do it - im damn sure we can - and id also be pretty sure that their families dont get shafted (finacially) like ours do either.
 
#5
Im pretty sure the American forces tax has some rules and regs cant remember what it is, will ask some later (if I remember).
The Belgiums have the right idea.
Private in the Cavalry earns roughly 1200 euros a month, 3 month tour of Afghanistan an extra 3000 euro per month tax free.
Lt Col salary doubles and change when on op tour.
 
#6
From what i can remeber of the American system - if you are out of the country for any part of a month you dont pay any tax etc for that month so they work the roulements that you leave the country at the end of the month and the guy you are releiving leaves atthe start of the months so both gain out of it.
 
#7
Although the waiving of tax looks attractive in the short term it has all sorts long term problems. First though, the general salary and pay and allowances for those nations that do waive tax on ops is not as good as the UK soldier (in general terms there are a couple of exceptions).

If you don't pay tax it is likely that the X factor (worth about £5-6k) would be reduced or even taken off us (and that would be a Treasury driven initiative).
We could end up with a two tier Army - ops and those not on ops.
The X factor contributes towards our pension (whilst money on which we don't pay tax is already taken into account).
Finally we shouldn't have to rely on what is effectively an overtime payment to ensure that we have a living wage.
 
#8
yea you are spot on there OSACIN, just spoke to one of the septics. Leaves on the 1st of December, strange eh................. 8O
 
#9
If the SPS stopped our tax each time we deployed and then restarted it once we returned, how many of us would have massively fcuked up pay at the end of each tax year and how much would we end up owing the govt?
they cant even stop and start LSSA or ResPOD correctly 9 times out of 10.

After 22 years of stopping and starting Tax and LSSA youd owe more than youd be getting in gratuity.
 
#10
staca said:
what is the opinion of soldier haveing to still pay tax an n.i whilst serving abroad?
Staca,

Nice idea but, as the others have pointed out, there would be a shed load of problems. I have a simpler solution; the Govt should pay the going rate for a soldier - and they aren't doing so at the moment!

I find it criminal that, reportedly, a private soldier on ops earns less per hour than the national minimum wage! I say "reportedly" because I haven't done the calculation myself. I will now be shot down in flames!

Why join up when you can earn more in any office job on the high street and knock off at 5pm?

My solution? Pay a private soldier one third of the salary paid to MPs, which would be roughly £20k (of £60k). Then adjust upwards from there. Oh and link our pension to theirs....

Litotes....dreaming gently in the Land of Nod...
 
#11
Ord_Sgt said:
Currently if you are in the UK for more than 90 days in 1 year you pay income tax on your worldwide income.

However I personally believe any squaddie on ops should not pay tax while there. Make it a special case like the yanks do. Actual loss to the countries coffers would be minute. Think of the boost to moral and feeling of worth it would generate within the Mil, all for a few quid. I'm surprised it hasn't actually been done.
If the treasury started to lose income from this type of system, surely there would then be pressure on the government to reduce the number of squaddies deployed at any one time, and also to reduce the number of deployments in order to minimise the effect on the UK economy....

Having said that, I reckon that our esteemed Chancellor would rather hammer his knob flat with a meat tenderiser than allow squaddies a tax benefit :? Why is it that a squaddie on the lowest level of the lowest pay band is not entitled to some benefits from the system

Ghost
 
#12
Litotes said:
Staca,

Nice idea but, as the others have pointed out, there would be a shed load of problems. I have a simpler solution; the Govt should pay the going rate for a soldier - and they aren't doing so at the moment!

I find it criminal that, reportedly, a private soldier on ops earns less per hour than the national minimum wage! I say "reportedly" because I haven't done the calculation myself. I will now be shot down in flames!

Why join up when you can earn more in any office job on the high street and knock off at 5pm?

My solution? Pay a private soldier one third of the salary paid to MPs, which would be roughly £20k (of £60k). Then adjust upwards from there. Oh and link our pension to theirs....

Litotes....dreaming gently in the Land of Nod...
Anyone on less than £120 a day are on less than minimum wage (£5 an hour, 24 hours)
 
#13
The Army isnt about making money its a life style. The average soldier gets more time off per year leave than his civvie counterpart. You join the Army to train to go to war so when the time to do your job comes get on with it. wait til you do your ressetlement the reality of the commercial world will come home to roost when you are told to expect a 1/3 cut in wages in your civilian job. That suggests to me that you are over paid currently by a third and thats without the 11% contribution you make to your pension( non contributery) ie you dont see it but its paid. plus your cheap rent on houses, low council tax, cheap water and electric and now you dont want to pay tax. Sod off get your job done like the rest of the country and be thankful that your being overpaid.
Dont cry danger money theres more people killed in the construction industry(72 last year) than soldiers get killed in war. Get on with it.
 
#14
smithy749 said:
Dont cry danger money theres more people killed in the construction industry(72 last year) than soldiers get killed in war. Get on with it.
Sounds like there's a feck off big chip on your shoulder smithy.
As a construction industry worker (admittedly not in the UK) my experience is that most people get killed/injured by their own fcuk ups through not following procedures and industry codes of practice. Also they are usually there by choice and on comparatively good money.
 
#15
smithy749 said:
Dont cry danger money theres more people killed in the construction industry(72 last year) than soldiers get killed in war. Get on with it.
yes but do the construction industry get up in the morning in a hostile country, get their kit together and have the niggling thought in the back of their mind that today just like yesterday and tomorrow, they could die a painful death by being blown apart, burnt alive or shot or probably worse have any off those things happen to them and survive and live the rest of their lives in agony with horrific nightmares.

Smithy get a life, its not like it was in 'your day' where the most dangerous thing you did was a tour in the med centre in Lisburn.
 
#16
I have a bit of an angle of this,

Whilst on ops earlier this year in iraq we were fortunate enought to have a visit by some big wig from the MOD. The question was raised "why do other nato forces serving in iraq not pay tax and national insurance ?" The afore mentioned bigwig then informed us that we as deployed uk forces were elegable for a non taxable allowance called LSSA!! How out of touch is this cnut? I then informed the gentleman that all allowances payed to our selves came on a statement of salary and deductions (pay statement) and is therefore taxable, just like anything i.e Soldier deploys to iraq, soldier pays for food and accom at the full rate until clerks get there fingers out of each others arses and rectify it on unicom, soldier then gets a nice statement of salary and deductions telling him that he has recieved his food and accom back for the last six months but it has been taxed? How does this work? I know that the tax office will tell you that it all sorts itself out over the course of the tax year, but i have never recieved a massive tax reduction over the course of the year or on any pay statement.
Anyway i digress im sure that ther will be many points of view on this subject but the point i was trying to make before i got sidetracked was that this bigwig from the MOD was abit stumped by the fact that he didnt know that LSSA and everything else is taxable, so the very expensively educated gent offered up the answer " well im afraid that it will never change and british forces will always pay tax whilst on operations"

Thanks for that, your helicopter is waiting
 
#17
The very very best bit about the pay for OPs is the way that pad soldiers from BFG take a pay cut when being sent off to play the governments games.

For those that haven't had the pleasure of this yet it is because they take your percentage of LOA away and only pay you the residual family element.

The practical effect of this is that you get less dosh whilst on OPS than when at home.

What a caring sharing system we have :? :roll:

Unless they have changed the system in the last couple of years of course?
 
#18
smithy749 said:
The Army isnt about making money its a life style. The average soldier gets more time off per year leave than his civvie counterpart. You join the Army to train to go to war so when the time to do your job comes get on with it. wait til you do your ressetlement the reality of the commercial world will come home to roost when you are told to expect a 1/3 cut in wages in your civilian job. That suggests to me that you are over paid currently by a third and thats without the 11% contribution you make to your pension( non contributery) ie you dont see it but its paid. plus your cheap rent on houses, low council tax, cheap water and electric and now you dont want to pay tax. Sod off get your job done like the rest of the country and be thankful that your being overpaid.
Dont cry danger money theres more people killed in the construction industry(72 last year) than soldiers get killed in war. Get on with it.
Interesting, if chippy, comment. Presumably you left the Army for a number of reasons influenced no doubt by factors such as the unsociable hours and conditions, the effect on family stability, childrens' education and inability for a partner to gain employment. There is also, as pointed out, the danger element. If you want the benefits then stay in - easy really.

On a point of detail:

Cheap rent - yes but taken into account by AFPRB when setting wage levels (ie if they were more expensive we should be paid more).
Low council tax. Not really - the last time I looked my CILOCT contribution was about the same as the local council tax rates.
Cheap water - you might be right since this is swept up in my rent.
Cheap elecricity- No I pay direct to my local electricity supplier the same as any other civvy in the area. The only cheap electricity I am aware of is civs employed by the MOD who live abroad where they pay no fuel and light charges.
There are more soldiers killed in accidents than are killed in war (just like the construction industry).
Pensions - taken into account by the AFPRB (and this is something most soldiers don't realise). I don't blame you for taking a swipe as this it seems to be quite fashionable in Civ Div at the moment.

Finally time off - 6 weeks (if not on ops) is about the same as anyone else. Post Op Leave merely takes into account those weekends and long days worked over a tour. I agree that the Army is generous about giving time off for compassionate/admin issues; but then, that's what all caring employers should be doing.
 
#19
Ah well if you are fed up with being a 'real soldier' then you can always join the TA.

You get four weeks holiday from your 'normal job', two of which you have to use for your annual camp. Leaving you a grand total of two weeks per year. A private gets paid about 35 quid a day (no X factor) for those two weeks, which is markedly less than I would get if I did the extra work at my civi job. Oh yeh, and you get taxed at about 40% on that if you are earning a good wage in your civi job. :cry:

You don't get a pension, you don't get your holiday entitlement that you would any other 'part-time' job, you don't get this mythical 'low council tax etc etc etc'. :roll:

Sorry I didn't want to have a rant, I know it is not my full time job, but like most people I actually lose out by taking part in the TA. How many of you can say that about your job?

Seeing as that might be a bit off topic (maybe I'll have a rant in the TA thread?). :wink:

However, I totally agree. What would be the loss to the UK tax system if Mr Brown didn't tax those on ops? Not as much as the gain in moral- heck it may even be worth going on a tour (even for the TA lads who will have to use that money to find a new job).

I just think that the admin costs would be a night mare. If they can't even sort out the CSA.............
 
#20
smithy749 said:
The Army isnt about making money its a life style.....
Agreed, Smithy749, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But the Services rely on a steady stream of young lads and lasses joining at the bottom, and then a steady but smaller outflow during the next 20 to 30 years, always with the idea that we keep people long enough to pay back our investment in their training. If the young lad/lass does not see the risk/reward ratio as being in their favour, they go elsewhere. Why join, go through hell in training and be shot at on ops for not much money when you can join a high street bank for more money, be home in time for tea and then do what you want in the evening and at weekends?

The Services are not currently paying enough, or offering sufficient intangible rewards, to offset the kids' sacrifice, and they are going elsewhere. The recruiting figures demonstrate that. I note that one of the reasons that our Members of Parliament (MP) decided to give themselves a huge pay rise in the mid-90s was "the desire to attract and retain high calibre individuals". I believe they failed.... and I have always observed that there are ten applicants for every vacant MP job - whereas we struggle to achieve 90% of our target. If they can raise their pay to attract more staff, why can't the Services?

If you are in the construction industry, I bet you would not willingly turn up when the boss is paying poor wages - you would look elsewhere, unless you were desperate. The boss sees an empty building site and has to offer more money. If he doesn't, nothing happens. Equally, if he knows that a major contract down the road has just finished, he will drop his wages because he knows that more tradesmen will be available. Supply and demand.

The laws of supply and demand apply to the military too, but we can't buy in the skills we want - we have to grow them. In effect, we offer apprenticeships (as the construction industry used to). If we don't attract the young kids, ten years later, we don't have section commanders and the like. And unlike the construction industry, we can't go to the local employment agency and ask for a dozen fully trained section commanders; they don't exist! (and, yes, I am aware that the same is true of the construction industry, which is why we are sucking in plumbers from Poland - if the papers are correct).

And you're right; I wouldn't want to work in the construction industry. Far too dangerous!

I wouldn't mind your hours of work, though! (tongue firmly in cheek)!

Litotes
 

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