Soldiers Crimes

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Bellthrob, Dec 16, 2005.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. An increasing number of junior soldiers in my Corps are clocking up appalling disciplinary records. I suspect that this is also the case in other Arms and Services. 'Soldier's Crimes' we can all deal with. Idleness, dishonesty and unprofessionalism we cannot. Is it considered that the increased incidences of offences related to the aforementioned are as a result of weak NCO's, a lack of support from the officer hierarchy or is it because the UK has turned into a weak and selfish society?
  2. The latter "because the UK has turned into a weak and selfish society". People are, quite frankly, bloody shits.

    "in my day" the corporals used to punch people who were gobby. Lest we forget the "army realignments" behind the billets involving lots of fists and feet directed at a recruits torso.

    Nowadyas, due to PC culture, everybody is too soft. When I was wee, if I said "**** you old man" to my dad, I was smacked clear into next month. Nowadays the gobby kids are roaming with impunity.
  3. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    Yes but this was a dreadful system which allowed bullying completely unchecked and simply bred more bullies as a result. As a young subbie I saw my Company Sergeant Major administering his own brand of justice and, at the time, didn't see a problem with it. In reality, it set the tone for the company, particularly amongst the JNCOs and senior privates, and all kinds of nastiness was taking place in the block when the officers and seniors were safely out of the way. This didn't produce happy soldiers.

    I think the problem now is that a great many Chav parents - Dads in particular - have so little to do with their kids, largely as a result of their own appalling upbringings, the the kids are virtually feral; educated, if that's the word, by themselves and their mates, and with no real guidelines or moral code to follow. I doubt it has much to do with PC culture.
  4. And you can thank your liberal lefties for the bone idle culture we all live in. When her Maj gave me her shilling she told me from that point on that I came under military law and that if I stepped out of line then first it would be a quiet word, second it would be a slap and after that a good shoeing. If any of those didn't work then it was off to Colly for a few weeks/months.

    Now I recon if you were to ask the average soldier in any camp, he would be able to resite any rule straight from the book as though he was a bloody lawyer.

    I had a recruit approach me and ask whether I thought it was appropriate for another NCO to swear at them. I said it all really depended on what had caused the altercation in the first place. The answer I got was that they had failed to address the SSM as "sir"!

    "Fcuking right you deserved to be swore at, now fcuk off and think about what you did wrong".
  5. First point. Do you want happy or effective soldiers?

    Not saying they can't be both at the same time but as 90% of the problems are caused by 10% of the troops then surely a good attitude adjustment session will produce a happy and effective majority.

    Second point. Who is to blame for the "Chav parents"? We have allowed the social workers/out reach/empowerment/BS merchants to dictate how we allowed to behave towards our children with the results that are only now becoming apparent.
  6. You can't bully or beat anyone into doing what YOU want can you?Bullying in the Army although not carried out by the officer classes it was instigated by them,jumped up little creeps that they were.
  7. The armed forces changed in two ways when options for change was put in place. I mean the forces got so small and the promotions scale got steeper,those that are in now care more for there promotion than for their men. I'm talking from the top down. There are some outstanding NCO's that have the ability to be flexible in there approch to man management. When I joined up and seen an outstanding NCO with his kit and professional attitude,I would always say that is how I want to turn out. However the young soldiers nowdays just want to be like the godsh*te NCO familiar with his Rfn getting Pissed and showing off.
  8. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    In my experience, unhappy soldiers aren't usually effective, particularly when they are being bullied by their superiors. Bullying and internal violence generally, have a corrosive effect on cohesion, morale and thus effectiveness. Bullying and the maintenance of discipline are two completely different things.

    This is a chicken and egg situation. The rise of the social worker has basically resulted from the breakdown of social values and while they may not have helped matters much, they are there as a response to social problems, not as their instigator. If you want my opinion on 'Who is to blame for the "Chav parents"?', my own view is the Trades Union Movement, the Labour Party and 'Welfarism' in general which have inadvertantly disincentivised the bottom end of the social spectrum from taking any steps to improve their lot in life by setting the social 'safety net' too high. I'm happy to argue the toss about that one, however. Whoever is to blame, PC culture hasn't been around long enough to be much of a factor.

    If brains were PE4, you wouldn't have enough to blow the snot out of your nose.
  9. If you want an effective volunteer in the Armed Forces, you should select the right person in the first place and treat them with respect once you have them on the books.

    Garbage in, garbage out.

    The Forces are subject to market-forces and right now there is probably not the public support/respect for the profession as-is.

    The general increase in education, social awareness and overall lifestyle expectations of a potential recruit are such that he isn't going to take being systematically degraded. You can harden a person for operations without reducing their humanity. To attempt to otherwise creates the Calleys of the World.

    Start selling the profession with the mind set of industry/commerce and you might be surprised at the quality of people available.

    Then again, if it's a profession that Britons don't want, maybe we should go and 'hire' from nations that are willing to do our work for us. Mind you, the Romans tried that and look what happened when the Germans took a trip south...
  10. Agreed on the difference between bullying and maintaining discipline and there is the rub. A quick clout round the ear is not bullying but seems (if the posters on here are to be believed) to be treated as if you have been raping and pillaging your way through the ranks. As to unhappy troops being ineffective that is also a fair point but is the prospect of getting a kicking if you fcuk up the cause of the unhappiness or the fact that some of the troop are not pulling their weight and the powers that be are/can do nothing about it?

    On the subject of social breakdown you think that the social worker is a symptom whereas I think they are at least a part of the cause. Another thread methinks.
  11. can't make somebody do something but you CAN make them wish they had. As for officers instigating bullying, why don't you wind your neck in. In my day most seniors were more than capable of instigating it themselves with no encouragement - indeed despite the opposite - from officers. As for being a jumped up little creep, well may I suggest your face and my arrse are a perfect match?
  12. Should a soldier under your command be able to question your orders? Because in this PC brigade that we seem to have entered it would appear so.

    Ask a soldier to do something and they question it.(some, not all).
    Tell them to do it they feel they are being victimised/bullied.
    Swear at them and they play the bullying card.

    AIGI 67 seemed to put the shoe firmly back on the NCO's foot, but how often is it being used to it's full potential? Not much it would appear.

    There should be a 3 strike rule IMHO, 1 you get extras, 2 you get jail time on camp or Colly, 3 your out.
  13. Percy_Pigeon

    Percy_Pigeon War Hero Book Reviewer

    Right oh I’ll be back to the mill sir 'doff of cap and tug of forelocks'.

    At the end of the day we are stuck with the raw materiel that we have. No end of winging can change that. You have to utilise what you have and be firm, fair and consistent.

    Now we have a discipline system that offers the JNCO’s some control, it not just the athletes and good tradesman that bring skills to the table.

    We have a modern work force and old fashioned methods are forbidden you can only utilise the skill sets we are allowed to use. I admit that the old fashioned methods work (and quicker and with less pain), the chain of command must realise that these Victorian methods are consigned to the history books (and taggart)
  14. Have a wander around Catterick (particularly Tesco's), they don't give a toss. It's not just recruits , it's trained soldiers and JNCOs as well. Swanning round without head dress, hand in pockets, smoking or shoving a MacDonalds or a Greggs pasty in their faces, driving like c*nts in both civvy and mil vehicles. When you grip them, they look at you like you have two heads. They obviously get away with it in their Battalions. This may sound minor, trivial even, but if they have such little respect for their uniforms and units, why should they be expected to have any respect for anything/anyone else. You see Officers and NCOs from the same cap badges just walking past them and not even blinking. I've even seen the little c&nts park Lannies in the Disabled/Mother and Toddler car parking spaces. I told one c*nt from the KINGOs to move his Lannie, which casued an eruption from his mates in the back. Reported the matter to the unit, bugger all was done. Gripped another KINGO for hand brake turning in the Med Centre carpark. C&nt started choppsing off. Reported the cheeky little tw*t, nothing was done by his unit. If the units don't give a sh*t why should the rest of us?

    Summertime see's them lying around on the grass opposite the White Shops supping on carry outs. That's in and out of uniform. RMP just drive past.

    I was in Richmond the other day and two of them, male and female in a grey Series 3 BMW come swinging into the market square like Bo and Luke. Numpty f*ck the driver abandons the car and then he and his chick head off on foot down the square, no head dress, hands in pockets the pair of them. She walks in my direction and expects me to move, cheeky little c*nt. Both from the local RAMC unit.

    These aren't just localised attitudes either. It's over every Garrison.
  15. Might I suggest that you (collectively) take a look at the Military Preparation Collages that are about. With out a doubt some are only in it for the cash, however those that are sucessful treat the students with respect from the out set. Not treated with kid gloves but treated fairly. It is not how the rules are applied but the fairness and consistancy with which they are applied.

    Ever had 5 days rippers for being 5 minutes late?