Soldier First

Discussion in 'Infantry' started by lacrabat, Oct 23, 2007.

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  1. For us corps people where does soldier first end and course qualified infantry begin ?

    Valid reason for asking, someone I know wants to transfer from corps to inf but despite being attached to inf whilst on ops and carrying out the same job for a large part of it he has been told he has to do CIC.
    If CIC is so important why don't we all have to do it before doing the same job as inf on ops.
    Don't take this post as a swipe at the infantry cos it's not, far from it.
  2. A mate of mine who's a L/Cpl in the RLC is transfering to the Royal Anglians, he was attached to the infantry in Afghanistan recently. He's says that their way of doing things is totally different from the RLC (obviously). He has said that most of the RLC intructors tend to do their intructing from books where as the infantry have first hand knowledge. This could be why there are certain courses to do before tranfering. For anybody from a corp with rank to transfer to the infantry and to think that their rank makes them a leading authority on infantry tactics will not go down to well with lads with real combat experiance.
    As for soldier first trade second I think the that get said to make us feel better.
  3. The level of infantry tactics on a "soldier first" basis is adequate enough to provide low level force protection and limited integration into an infantry unit. However Infantry tactics techniques and procedures go far beyond the ability to conduct section attacks.

    there are many phases of warfighting that in themselves require in depth exploration prior to posting to an infantry battalion, and the learning does not stop there.

    operations other than war in many parts could be conducted by "soldier first" trained personnel, but when you start approaching operations such as fix and strike etc etc, the demands are such that there really should be a solid foundation of infantry skills behind it.

    you do have a valid point when you say that maybe corps men should have more in depth infantry type training, because as whe have seen COIN/MACP ops can very quickly turn from hearts and minds to war fighting on the flip of a coin and the enemy does not differentiate between corps men and infantry.
  4. A couple of things spring to mind.

    1. Soldier first does not make you an Infanteer. Soldier first is all about maintaining the values and standards of the Army, being able to administer yourself whilst on operations, exercise and at any other time. All this and all the other things that we don't think about that makes us different from civilians.

    2. I doubt your friend was doing the job of an Infanteer. They may have been attached, but driving for the Inf or providing a little top cover does not make one an Infanteer.

    It appears you have been a little short sighted, you need to look a little closer at what the Inf do in entirety and what it takes for them to do it.
  5. I agree with dingerr, and if your 'friend' really wants to transfer then doing CIC should not be a problem.
  6. I worked with the medics on tour. I liked it and wanted to transfer, but they said I had to do some medic course of something. I mean really, I can slap on a FFD and inject morphine so i don't see the problem.
  7. If I put on an extra 14 stone of fat and fail every fitness test that comes my way I could join the TA.
  8. Maybe, however the RAF will bite your hand off :)
  9. A pretty bone question if you ask me. You should have had a long think about this before posting and embarrassing yourself.

    He will go to Catterick to find out if he has what it takes to be an infantryman. Also the infantry isn't as easy as you may think. You need to learn to tactics, weapons and other such stuff.

    Its like saying "I hung around a doctor for three months so I am a doctor".
  10. hmmm, i think a few technical tradesmen might have an opinion on that!

    i thought a very fair question and infantry low-level tactics (coy(-)) are pretty straight forward
  11. As a VM who was always told "Soldier first" I was always under the impression that it simply meant if the need arose you put your spanner down and took up your weapon (If you remembered where you'd put it). I never thought it meant I was militarily the equal of an infantryman/gunner/cavalryman at their job.
    I was capable of using my issued weapon and maimtaining it but didn't really have any idea of what infantry tactics were all about. Although when I joined up I went into the infantry, I transfered to REME immediately I'd finished basic training. I would imagine had I then gone to the regiment (1st Staffords) I would have been taught the rest of my craft, as it was I went to REME and learned how to be a VM with sufficient military training to fulfil my duties and not be completely useless when we were sent to Cyprus and NI.
    I could say I've seen every John Wayne film ever made and know all there is to know about being a front line hero but somehow I don't think that would be true.
  12. RM have an excellent system whereby all mne personnel do the full cdo cse and an initial tour as GD Mne, after their first tour they can then specialise as dvr, medic, chef etc
  13. So who are 29 CDO Arty, 59 RE?
  14. They're not Royal Marines; they're army commandos.
  15. Really i did not know that?

    My point was that not all people in 3 Cdo Bde have goen through Marine basic training.

    Same as not everyone in 16AA or 2Mec etc etc have gone through CIC.